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Overcrowded FM Dial

We're about 18 miles southwest of Hazleton PA, as the crow flies.

We're also about 1450 feet above sea level, a half-mile north of the intersection of PA 61 and I-81.

I can log a signal -- maybe not IDing it -- on virtually every FM channel here, given Philly and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre and Williamsport and Reading, plus the spots in between. That's on the car radio.

The aforementioned Hazleton is higher up that we are. There's talk, perhaps apocryphal, perhaps not, that Hazleton is the highest-up city in Eastern PA. I haven't FM DXed in Hazleton for years. But on a guess I'd say that the seek button on the car radio in Hazleton would stop at every station -- including some NYC signals.
 
cyberdad said:
Since the last post prior to this thread being bumped up, I've had the good fortune to visit Italy.
Click to expand...

Does their FM band still stop at 104, or have the pirates occupied frequencies above that, too?
 
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DavidEduardo said:


.....another (complete with station logos and transmitter sites):

http://radiomap.eu/it/roma
Click to expand...


I think those two lists should settle the question of "where is the FM band most crowded".

With apologies for the slight veer, it's probably worth noting that the AM band is all but empty in Italy. The soil conductivity generally is very poor, which would certainly seem to play into the explosion of the FM band there. Where we were during our week last summer, only 2 stations tripped the scan button on the (very good) Toyota car radio, 657 and 1170. Almost all of the remaining channels were completely blank. 657 was the stronger of the two that tripped the scan function. From Pisa, which was about 60 miles to our west. It certainly didn't sound like a 100KW blowtorch. Lots of hiss even in open, noise-free areas on the two portables I had with me, although on the car radio, it sounded fine.

(Our location was as noise-free as it gets. We were with a group of 11 that went in together on a country villa. Six miles from the nearest town at the end of a one-lane gravel road. Beautiful....and a DX-er's paradise. In addition to the dozens of FM stations 24/7, at night the AM (MW), LW and SW bands all lit up!
 
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Just S of Charleston, I can hear 44 different FM stations regularly. There are very few open frequencies that don't have at least a nearby station on them. The Radio-Locator vacant channel search only shows 2 open frequencies in the market, 106.7 and 107.9. 107.7, 87.9, 93.7, 93.9, and 105.9 are the others that are worse than 106.7 and 107.9.

However, I can hear signals on all the frequencies that are listed, whether it is Columbia, Myrtle Beach, Savannah, Hilton Head, or other nearby markets.
 
DavidEduardo said:


Here is a supposedly current list of all FMs in the Rome metro.

http://romeguide.it/radioroma.htm

And another (complete with station logos and transmitter sites):

http://radiomap.eu/it/roma

Yes, they go up to 107.9
Click to expand...

Interesting. In 1972, the tour guide's car radio stopped at 104. I asked him about it, he said above 104 was used by police and it is illegal to have a radio that tunes it. They must have changed their FM band limit at some point since 1972.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
In 1972, the tour guide's car radio stopped at 104...he said above 104 was used by police and it is illegal to have a radio that tunes it.
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Your tour guide was mistaken.
I was given a Brit clock-radio from that era which also stopped at 104.
(I used an air conditioner outlet and the clock ran precisely 20% fast)
The band had simply not grown past 104.
The US band was established as 88-108 from the getgo,
but not so in Europe.
 
ai4i said:
The US band was established as 88-108 from the getgo but not so in Europe.
Click to expand...

That is not entirely true. The original FM band was 42 to 50 MHz, only allowing 40 stations. You can occasionally still find old radios with this original FM band.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
That is not entirely true. The original FM band was 42 to 50 MHz, only allowing 40 stations. You can occasionally still find old radios with this original FM band.
Click to expand...
Of course you are correct!
I was referring to the post-war, 3m FM band
 
So what happened with the so called Expanding the Band in 2009 down to 76 MHz after the Analog sut-off?

The FCC wanted Public feebback on it, But I think it got ignored and it never happened
 
That was never, ever a serious proposal and only existed on boards like this. It's too late for that to happen because no one is buying new radios. The existing ones don't tune there. Might have been a plan 30 years ago
 
So Expain this, From the Wiki

In March 2008, the FCC requested public comment on turning the bandwidth currently occupied by analog television channels 5 and 6 (76–88 MHz) over to extending the FM broadcast band when the digital television transition was to be completed in February 2009 (ultimately delayed to June 2009).[14] This proposed allocation would effectively assign frequencies corresponding to the existing Japanese FM radio service (which begins at 76 MHz) for use as an extension to the existing North American FM broadcast band.
Click to expand...
 
MarioMania said:
So Expain this, From the Wiki
Click to expand...

The FCC opens lots of subjects for comments. The lack of interest in a new band was overwhelming and the idea went nowhere. At the same time, the repack changed the use of the VHF TV spectrum usage (76 to 88 correspond to analog channel 4 and 6).
 
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gr8oldies said:
That was never, ever a serious proposal and only existed on boards like this. It's too late for that to happen because no one is buying new radios. The existing ones don't tune there. Might have been a plan 30 years ago
Click to expand...

And - you just nailed the reason why HD radio failed. Nobody buys radios any more. What difference does it make if people have to buy new radios for HD, or new radios for an expanded FM band - when nobody buys radios any more?
 
ai4i said:
My mind's eye picture's,
1:22-1:30 into this video
Happening here!


We are NOT going to get a large number of Italian-language radio stations...LOL
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The dial in my city might as well be Italian, for all the Spanish language stuff being crammed on. Most Spanish language religious that doesn't serve any appreciable listeners. Sometimes I think this city is a big experiment to see if you can force people to learn Spanish so they can listen to Spanish language radio. It isn't working. That is the only failure bigger than HD radio, new coke, the Edsel, PC Junior, Microsoft Bob, and the cue cat.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
The dial in my city might as well be Italian, for all the Spanish language stuff being crammed on. Most Spanish language religious that doesn't serve any appreciable listeners. Sometimes I think this city is a big experiment to see if you can force people to learn Spanish so they can listen to Spanish language radio. It isn't working. That is the only failure bigger than HD radio, new coke, the Edsel, PC Junior, Microsoft Bob, and the cue cat.
Click to expand...

Translators have a variety of purpose. With many religious groups, it is in reaching their congregation and perhaps converting others... but it is certainly not ratings, which they don't subscribe to anyway. With non-Hispanic ethnic programming, it is about serving a very specific community that has its own businesses. With some AMs, it is about moving to where the audience is, often with a better day and night signal than the AM has.

All these options are profitable.

With Hispanic targeted Spanish language on translators, it is about serving audiences that are thought to be un-served (such as the salsa and tropical station) or being a bottom feeder when leading stations like KLOL and KLTN are so expensive.

As to Spanish language radio, it exists in proportion to the need and the dollars available for advertising on the commercial stations. In a market that should be 40% Hispanic soon, it's pretty obvious why there are many stations chasing this group.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
And - you just nailed the reason why HD radio failed. Nobody buys radios any more. What difference does it make if people have to buy new radios for HD, or new radios for an expanded FM band - when nobody buys radios any more?
Click to expand...

HD radio has not failed. It is just less of a success than originally thought... but it was designed before the Smartphone was created.

People are not buying stand-alone radios. They are "buying" radios attached to other things, like cars and, in the case of activated devices, smartphones. Cars, in their majority this year, have HD. Smartphones can listen to (some) off air signals or streaming sources; they are, in effect, today's radios.
 
DavidEduardo said:


Smartphones can listen to (some) off air signals or streaming sources; they are, in effect, today's radios.
Click to expand...

One of the first thoughts I had after I bought my first smartphone was "this is the radio that I always wanted but never existed before".
 
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