"WBBM and HD Chicago..." ... Phrased that way, is that a legal ID?

WBZ is in the same boat, using "WBZ and HD" at the TOH. I like that kind of AM-HD ID phrasing. I wish KYW would use it (I hardly listen to WPHT except for the Phils).

KYW uses "KYW, KYW-HD..." at xx:59.

???

ixnay

This reminds me of the old "KPAM and FM" instead of "KPAM-KPFM". KYW has it right. Some of our stations say "Kxxx-HD1 and haven't IDed the main station in years!

frankberry said:

"KPAM and FM" is not (and never has been) a legal station ID. Kxxx-HD1 may be legal. Same station ... same programming.

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Your first sentence is actually what I said. Kxxx-HD1 is perfectly legal. The problem arises because Kxxx isn't identified.

To my knowledge the FCC has not fined anyone for giving an "improper" legal ID in the last 20 or 25 years. Missing ID, yes, but not one that could plausibly fit within the spirit of the rules. However, I don't think "WQQQ and HD Anytown" fits within the text of the rules.

From 47CFR section 73.1201:

(1) Official station identification shall consist of the station's call letters immediately followed by the community or communities specified in its license as the station's location

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My understanding of the rules would be to give the CoL after every set of calls:
"WQQQ Anytown WQQQ-HD Anytown WATR-HD3 Watertown"

Legal requirements for legal ID's...

Simulcasting stations of the same owner with the same city of license may give both, such as "KAAA and KAAA-FM, Valley Hills", so the completely proper ID with an HD would be "KAAA-FM and KAAA-HD1, Valley Hills". Saying "KAAA-FM and HD1" would be legal.

Although the letter of the law says only licensee name, frequency, channel number., or network affiliation may go between the call letters and city of license, it has always been recognized that words such as "in", "and", or "for" are allowable if they make sense or add clarity. "This is KAAA in Valley Hills," would be fine in this example.

When a station has AM and FM with the same calls, the FM has "-FM" after it. For an FM that does not share call letters with a TV or AM, they have the option of obtaining the call letter with "-FM" or without. Whichever way they do it must be reflected in the legal ID. LPFM's have the suffix "-LP" which must be used in the ID.

Sam Brown

Tell that to KWLS in KS...a**hole owner was approached about being PAID to change his FM to KWLS-FM so KWLS could be used on an AM in Texas....he REFUSED!! because he said he would have to change everything at his station..even when informed that only the LEGAL ID would change to reflect the -FM, he hung up on the CASH offer....geesh

samb15 said:

Simulcasting stations of the same owner with the same city of license may give both, such as "KAAA and KAAA-FM, Valley Hills", so the completely proper ID with an HD would be "KAAA-FM and KAAA-HD1, Valley Hills". Saying "KAAA-FM and HD1" would be legal.

Although the letter of the law says only licensee name, frequency, channel number., or network affiliation may go between the call letters and city of license, it has always been recognized that words such as "in", "and", or "for" are allowable if they make sense or add clarity. "This is KAAA in Valley Hills," would be fine in this example.

When a station has AM and FM with the same calls, the FM has "-FM" after it. For an FM that does not share call letters with a TV or AM, they have the option of obtaining the call letter with "-FM" or without. Whichever way they do it must be reflected in the legal ID. LPFM's have the suffix "-LP" which must be used in the ID.

Sam Brown

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I disagree. "In", "the voice of" and others were freely used until the FCC made it clear that it was wrong to do so nearly 50 years ago. The only time I hear it anymore is in the middle of nowhere and I assume it's because they don't know any better.

Don't know if WBZ has been doing this since the day after the IA caucus, but last night at 6:00p ET, I heard "WBZ-AM and HD [...] Boston" followed by a "continuing coverage of the New Hampshire primary" blurb. IOW a tweak of what I quoted when I started this thread. Whether 'BZ will stick with "WBZ-AM and HD" after the votes are in and the victory/concession speeches given in the Granite State, time will tell.

ixnay

gr8oldies said:

I was told back in the day the proper way to ID and AM/FM Simulcast with the same COL would be WXXX, WXXX-FM West Podunk. Different COLs would be WXXX West Podunk, WXXX-FM North Skunkville. I would think HD would work the same way (WXXX, WXXX-HD1 West Podunk). Of course a lot of stations used "WXXX AM and FM West Podunk" and no one ever got fined unless it was added to a list of other violations. I've heard airchecks of WRKO and a couple of others that had the sung Johnny Mann (WRKO, Boston) followed by "AM and FM". That would have not been a legal ID for the FM.

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I agree with all of that. It isn't whether or not you think you can get away with it; it's what's legal.

In reality the Commission doesn't enforce legal ID verbiage anyway. There have been some NAL's handed out over the years for not even attempting an ID, but that's about it.

Kelly A said:

In reality the Commission doesn't enforce legal ID verbiage anyway. There have been some NAL's handed out over the years for not even attempting an ID, but that's about it.

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Maybe not lately but nearly 50 years ago, KISN had to change from "This is KISN, serving the great Oregon Territory from Vancouver." to "This is KISN Vancouver, serving the great Oregon Territory." Notice they never actually said "Portland".

semoochie said:

Maybe not lately but nearly 50 years ago, KISN had to change from "This is KISN, serving the great Oregon Territory from Vancouver." to "This is KISN Vancouver, serving the great Oregon Territory." Notice they never actually said "Portland".

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I believe that episode also involved a big legal battle and a nasty fine.

Kelly A said:

In reality the Commission doesn't enforce legal ID verbiage anyway. There have been some NAL's handed out over the years for not even attempting an ID, but that's about it.

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WPKN Bridgeport, CT, has ID'd for years as "WPKN, listener-supported community radio, Bridgeport." Obviously, that's good enough for the FCC, because the last thing a community station operating independent of a university or NPR needs is a fine of any size.