Two Standards Stations Have Departed

In the same week, we learn Denver's KEZW is switching to 50s/60s Oldies. And WBAE in Portland ME has switched to Talk.

1430 KEZW had been locally programmed and doing the format for decades. I believe it was one of the early Music of Your Life stations. Entercom owns both 950 and 1430 in Denver. It is selling Cruisin' Oldies 950 KRWZ to a new owner who only wants the signal, not the format. The press release claims the best of the two stations, KRWZ and KEZW, will be combined on 1430. But just knowing how these things work out, I'm sure the new station will be pretty much what KRWZ is now. KEZW's website shows it has only two DJs, one from 6am-Noon, the other Noon-6pm. It runs 10,000 watts by day, 5000 watts by night.

And in Portland, it's a similar story. Saga owns three AM stations there, 560 Talk (the top syndicated hosts, Rush, Beck etc.), 970 Talk (secondary hosts, Imus, Laura Ingraham, Dave Ramsey) and 1490 The Bay, airing America's Best Music format, 24/7. Even though Portland has two FM Sports stations, Saga will put ESPN on 970 24/7, and move Imus, Ingraham, Ramsey, etc. to 1490.

I can't understand why, as the population ages, there's no room on any radio dial, FM or AM, for a soft music format aimed at 50+. I know, that's not what advertisers want. But surely most AM formats are 50+. OK, maybe sports skews a bit younger, although with two FM sports stations in Portland, how many young sports fans are going to be listening to ESPN's national feed on AM 970?

I bet the average age of the songs played on Cruisin' Oldies in Denver is older than what's played on KEZW. Cruisin' Oldies is 50s/60s Hits. But KEZW plays music from the 50s to today, as long as its soft. You're as likely to hear Rod Stewart, Sade, Norah Jones and Michael Buble as older artists on KEZW. So why do today's listeners, even older ones, prefer uptempo music to soft music?

Gregg. said:

I can't understand why, as the population ages, there's no room on any radio dial, FM or AM, for a soft music format aimed at 50+. I know, that's not what advertisers want.

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That's the answer. Advertisers are the paying customers, not the listeners. Since most of us old geezers pretty much know what we want in life, they don't have to target us. We already know they're there. And just because a car or beer company prefers to advertise to the young and gullible, that doesn't mean they won't take my money. They just don't need to advertise on stations that cater to my age group.

So why do today's listeners, even older ones, prefer uptempo music to soft music?

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Because soft music is boring. Boring music went out with black-and-white TV.

KeithE4 said:

Gregg. said:

I can't understand why, as the population ages, there's no room on any radio dial, FM or AM, for a soft music format aimed at 50+. I know, that's not what advertisers want.

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That's the answer. Advertisers are the paying customers, not the listeners. Since most of us old geezers pretty much know what we want in life, they don't have to target us. We already know they're there.

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This question needs to stop coming up every time a format flip happens and removes a 55+ appeal format.

Asked and answered. Enough.

Not everyone will read all the posts or has a photographic memory, K.M. So I'll take the shot at an answer to Gregg and Keith.

If it were only a 50 or 55+ format, that'd be one thing. But that's a description of 60s & 70s oldies.

Standards is more of a 70+ format, even when updated to include 70s and early 80s AC hits. Example: I was playing Steely Dan, Wings and Little River Band to an AC audience in 1978. I was aiming for (and getting) 37-year-olds. In a couple of weeks, 1978 will be 38 years ago. So those listeners are about to turn 75. Stick to true standards (if such a thing still exists in commercial radio) and you're 80+.

Are there younger people who love the music? Yes. I'm one of them (though at 59 and 3/4, I'm not on anybody's demographic hot list either). But the bulk of the audience will be very, very old...and the average age will skew higher still because it's the only thing on the dial for an older listener. If someone in town is 109 and has a radio, they'll tune in.

As for the lack of appeal of softer music to today's adults....they were raised on rhythm. And it goes back to the boomer generation. Wanna know where to find 65-year-old men other than talk? Classic Rock.

K.M. Richards said:

This question needs to stop coming up every time a format flip happens and removes a 55+ appeal format.

Asked and answered. Enough.

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Yeah, but it is part and parcel to talking about that format, among others (wait until geezer-dominated conservative talk stations start biting the dust). I'd think the only way to stop such statements -- if I hadn't answered him, somebody else would have, and I'm not going to start an argument or complain about it -- would be to just kill this board and others that relate to older-skewing formats. That's Frank's call, not ours.

landtuna said:

That's pretty much a blanket statement and, like most blanket statements, tends not to be too accurate.

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It was (1) my opinion, and (2) sarcasm.

Gregg. said:

In the same week, we learn Denver's KEZW is switching to 50s/60s Oldies. And WBAE in Portland ME has switched to Talk.

I can't understand why, as the population ages, there's no room on any radio dial, FM or AM, for a soft music format aimed at 50+. I know, that's not what advertisers want. But surely most AM formats are 50+.

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Apparently it's not what the listeners want, either. The latest ratings for Denver show the standards format on KEZW with a 0.3. The crusin' oldies on KRWZ getting a 1.6, not great ratings, but 5x KEZW's.

Responding to some specifics in an article about KEZW (I'm actually in a similar situation):

"British Invasion, Motown, The Summer of Love, and Woodstock" - I'm not really interested in any of these, but I do sometimes like Motown.

"the best in Oldies Rock ‘n Roll" - There are some early styles of rock and roll that appeal to me. Actually, those styles are the only ones usually called rock and roll. But if it's rock, I'm not really interested.

"in a fun, upbeat environment" - I don't want upbeat. Actually, big band can be. It can be fun too. But what they probably refer to is not what I want.

Anyway, the advertisers don't want me. I get it. At home I have one station left with more of a standards approach, during the day, that I can sort of pick up on one radio. I don't. I just leave the radio off, and in the car, I'll see what different stations are doing, and hopefully I'll find something. Oldies can have a lot of good songs, just never when I'm tuning in. One station close to where I live is a little more conservative.

When will I be ready to spring for Sirius/XM? My car is getting old ...

Read More At: https://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/95562/1430-kezw-denver-to-assume-cruisin-oldies-format/

vchimpanzee said:

Responding to some specifics in an article about KEZW (I'm actually in a similar situation):

"British Invasion, Motown, The Summer of Love, and Woodstock" - I'm not really interested in any of these, but I do sometimes like Motown.

"the best in Oldies Rock ‘n Roll" - There are some early styles of rock and roll that appeal to me. Actually, those styles are the only ones usually called rock and roll. But if it's rock, I'm not really interested.

"in a fun, upbeat environment" - I don't want upbeat. Actually, big band can be. It can be fun too. But what they probably refer to is not what I want.

Anyway, the advertisers don't want me. I get it. At home I have one station left with more of a standards approach, during the day, that I can sort of pick up on one radio. I don't. I just leave the radio off, and in the car, I'll see what different stations are doing, and hopefully I'll find something. Oldies can have a lot of good songs, just never when I'm tuning in. One station close to where I live is a little more conservative.

When will I be ready to spring for Sirius/XM? My car is getting old ...

Read More At: https://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/95562/1430-kezw-denver-to-assume-cruisin-oldies-format/

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Not to be personal or anything but aren't you still slightly under 55?

I still can't understand why, when we were younger, artists like Barry Manilow, Anne Murray, John Denver, Roberta Flack, Neil Diamond, The Carpenters, etc. all had giant hit after giant hit. If they were big selling artists, some of us bought their records. Barbra Streisand is, I believe, the biggest selling female artist after Madonna.

But now, we don't want to hear them at all. If you have an Oldies or Classic Hits station, you're not allowed to play anything soft. No ballads. Everything else is OK, except artists who were bubble gum. So we're not going to hear The Partridge Family either. But everything else is OK. When you look over the list of top songs of each year, get out a big black magic marker and cross out any artist who does soft, mature music. Because in our maturity, we don't want mature music. If we are reading, or eating dinner or just relaxing, we don't want our music to reflect our mood. Our parents, our grandparents, all through history, had music to dance to and music to relax to. But we only want uptempo. No relaxing for us.

Am I so out of touch? Maybe the poster above is right, even though I hate to admit it. Soft music is boring, and boring went out with black and white TV. So all that music I thought were masterpieces, Bridge Over Troubled Water, Killing Me Softly, You've Got A Friend, I guess they'll all get tossed out with dial phones and black and white TVs.

Gregg. said:

I still can't understand why, when we were younger, artists like Barry Manilow, Anne Murray, John Denver, Roberta Flack, Neil Diamond, The Carpenters, etc. all had giant hit after giant hit. If they were big selling artists, some of us bought their records. Barbra Streisand is, I believe, the biggest selling female artist after Madonna.

But now, we don't want to hear them at all. If you have an Oldies or Classic Hits station, you're not allowed to play anything soft. No ballads. Everything else is OK, except artists who were bubble gum. So we're not going to hear The Partridge Family either. But everything else is OK. When you look over the list of top songs of each year, get out a big black magic marker and cross out any artist who does soft, mature music. Because in our maturity, we don't want mature music. If we are reading, or eating dinner or just relaxing, we don't want our music to reflect our mood. Our parents, our grandparents, all through history, had music to dance to and music to relax to. But we only want uptempo. No relaxing for us.

Am I so out of touch? Maybe the poster above is right, even though I hate to admit it. Soft music is boring, and boring went out with black and white TV. So all that music I thought were masterpieces, Bridge Over Troubled Water, Killing Me Softly, You've Got A Friend, I guess they'll all get tossed out with dial phones and black and white TVs.

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Gotta define who "we" are, Gregg. As I said in an earlier post, I'm almost 60 and the artists you mention were from my time. But the ad agencies don't want 55+, and that means they'll stop putting any real effort into 50+, because those folks are going to age out of the demo in 4 years or less. That means the oldest people they're going for are 10 years younger than me and their high school music was 80s hits/new wave/album rock.

Plus, a lot of songs and artists that you mentioned were adult-appeal records that Top 40 played. Our moms liked them. So add 25 or 30 years to the appeal. Look at album sales of the 70s and you'll see where the kids were spending their money...Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, Boston, Eagles, Van Halen, Aerosmith...

Gregg. said:

But now, we don't want to hear them at all. If you have an Oldies or Classic Hits station, you're not allowed to play anything soft. No ballads.

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And interestingly as I travel around various cities between Chicago and Charlotte, the Classic Hits station is often the softest one on the FM dial. "Safety Dance" is the new soft rock for your busy life.

Am I so out of touch? Maybe the poster above is right, even though I hate to admit it. Soft music is boring, and boring went out with black and white TV. So all that music I thought were masterpieces, Bridge Over Troubled Water, Killing Me Softly, You've Got A Friend, I guess they'll all get tossed out with dial phones and black and white TVs.

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The other interesting trend is the rapid decline of non-commercial jazz and classical stations, similarly inspired by a rapid aging of the listeners.
The typical classical listener:
1999 - 58 years old.
2009 - 65 years old

Jazz was pretty similar. The median Jazz listener:
1999 - 48 years old
2009 - 55 years old

53% of classical listeners and 39% of jazz listeners in 2009 were unemployed or retired (mostly retired), a major increase from 1999 when the numbers were 37% and 27%, respectively. Because these effects make fundraising harder, stations have cut back on classical and jazz programs.

I think it is reasonable to conclude that those of us who like something softer than Men With Hats are very much outliers.

Gregg. said:

I still can't understand why, when we were younger, artists like Barry Manilow, Anne Murray, John Denver, Roberta Flack, Neil Diamond, The Carpenters, etc. all had giant hit after giant hit. If they were big selling artists, some of us bought their records. Barbra Streisand is, I believe, the biggest selling female artist after Madonna.

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Those were "women's music." Not only young adult women, but their mothers and even their grandmothers. But the Tiger Beat Generation (1968-75-era high school girls) still preferred the Partridge Family and Donny Osmond.

But now, we don't want to hear them at all. If you have an Oldies or Classic Hits station, you're not allowed to play anything soft. No ballads. Everything else is OK, except artists who were bubble gum. So we're not going to hear The Partridge Family either. But everything else is OK.

Click to expand...

We're not going to hear the Partridge Family because the above-mentioned Tiger Beat Generation (who are now in their 50s and early 60s) outgrew bubblegum, as well as being outside the Sacred Sales Demo.

When you look over the list of top songs of each year, get out a big black magic marker and cross out any artist who does soft, mature music. Because in our maturity, we don't want mature music. If we are reading, or eating dinner or just relaxing, we don't want our music to reflect our mood. Our parents, our grandparents, all through history, had music to dance to and music to relax to. But we only want uptempo. No relaxing for us.

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Want mature music? Try jazz. Much better than that over-orchestrated, over-produced pablum called "soft rock," or the pretentious songwriter-with-a-guitar "folk rock" that the music critics loved but the rest of us found excruciatingly boring -- Bob Dylan being a notable exception.

Am I so out of touch? Maybe the poster above is right, even though I hate to admit it. Soft music is boring, and boring went out with black and white TV. So all that music I thought were masterpieces, Bridge Over Troubled Water, Killing Me Softly, You've Got A Friend, I guess they'll all get tossed out with dial phones and black and white TVs.

Click to expand...

I was being sarcastic, but I think I made my point: Those songs may have been big hits in their day, but they didn't stand the test of time. There will always be singer/songwriters with acoustic guitars, of course, but somebody else will have the hits with their songs (again, like Bob Dylan). They'll still get the royalty checks.

But as far as those old chestnuts goes, I can't see any radio station wanting its listeners falling asleep to their music. Sleeping people don't hear ads.

PTBoardOp94 said:

I think it is reasonable to conclude that those of us who like something softer than Men With Hats are very much outliers.

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It's reasonable to conclude that those who actually like Men Without Hats need intervention...FAST!

I believe they call that "Bad Canadian Music Derangement Syndrome," and it starts with an innocent purchase of a Celine Dion CD. But it goes rapidly downhill from there: Gino Vanelli... Alanis Morrisette...the DeFranco Family... Men Without Hats... Andy Kim... and finally, one hits rock bottom with (dare I say it?) JUSTIN BIEBER!!!!

The only cure is a solid week of great Canadian music like Rush, Neil Young, the Guess Who, and BTO. Before it's too late!!!!!