What to do to gain more site participation?
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Thread: What to do to gain more site participation?

  1. #1

    What to do to gain more site participation?

    I notice that the site has slowed down. It seems like there are fewer participants (fewer professionals from the industry). i still say that if the all the topics were easily accessible, it would increase topic discussion (even if it slows down load time). Is the board promoted in your other publications. The site has never recovered since the last shutdown. Is there a way to contact former members to invite them back.

    Just some constructive dialog, and brainstorming.

    Have you thought about doing a weekly podcast with the top forum topics?
    Last edited by Groove1670; 12-13-2015 at 10:23 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove1670 View Post
    I notice that the site has slowed down. It seems like there are fewer participants (fewer professionals from the industry).
    I can tell you why that is, but be prepared for a flame war to erupt.

    It seems that a lot of non-industry people have decided that this is the place to challenge industry practices and to forcefully declare that their opinions of how things should be done have more validity than the responses of the professionals. In virtually every such thread, the professionals have explained the reasoning behind whatever the non-pros are upset about. This inevitably results in the latter repeating themselves, with little other than anecdotes to back their posts up. Eventually every such thread devolves into circular arguments.

    Oh, and don't point out to the non-pros that this is an industry discussion site, owned by an industry-related publisher. They'll tell you they have every right to post here ... unchallenged. Eventually, both sides get less and less civil, and sooner or later a non-pro will post an attack on the credibility of one of the pros. That results in the thread being closed (if Frank is being charitable) and/or non-pros' accounts being banned (if they've been the catalyst of too many thread closures).

    Many of the professionals left before the shutdown, and since nothing changed policy-wise since the site was restored, they see no reason to come back.

    I personally believe that there should be a board rule that prohibits repeating non-factual, anecdotal opinions as a rebuttal to factual answers given to one's questions. Here's how such a rule would work in actual practice:

    Non-Pro: I think radio should stop pandering to those under 55 because it results in my favorite songs no longer getting airplay.
    Pro: The reason for this is that stations with too high a listener base over that age stop getting agency advertising buys.
    Non-Pro: But everyone I know thinks the same way about this.
    Pro: Well, if we're going to be able to stay on the air, we have to program in a way that gets advertising revenue.
    Non-Pro: The radio industry should tell the agencies they are wrong, then.
    Pro: They are following the instructions of their clients, who feel it is too expensive to market to over-55's.
    Non-Pro: All my friends and family members think you're all wrong and you need to change your thinking.

    At this point, the argument becomes circular. The non-pro has presented no actual fact to counter the answers from the pros, who have. Under the rule, the "circular poster" is warned not to continue, and if they decide the board management can't tell them to stop posting, they're subject to being tossed off.

    I wish that proposing such a rule wasn't something I thought necessary, but as long as we have people outside the industry who think hammering away at us is going to magically change things, I don't see things improving without such a rule.

  3. #3
    I agree, many of the circular issues get tiresome.

    Suggestion: Is is possible to create a industry only section (password required). I know it will be upset some, but It would be a way for the industry to exchance ideas.


    Maybe it should be explained that the industry "is what it is" (I know that sounds kinda juvenille), and an exchange of dialog to move forward would be beneficial.

    If you are non industry participant here to learn about the business, and ask questions about the current business model, then by all means please participate.

    Radio is not going back to the ways of 1959, 69,79, or 1989.


    On a positive note, I still enjoy the board, and the moderators do a great job, but maybe a tougher moderation policy might solve some of the issues.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
    I have seen ad positions on Radio Ink for RD.

    The other factor is the state of the radio industry right now. Not much to talk about in Peoria, because there's not much actual staff in Peoria. There's no more move-ins, and not much in the way of competitive format flips because there's only two or three owners.
    "Its music what makes a radio station, and at Live FM, we play the last music around."
    After receiving that copy, I quit the VO industry.

  5. #5
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    Maybe it's really the fact that every time a thread has a debate style feel to it, it has to be shutdown by the moderator, even if such debate has civility in it. It still gets shutdown and who's to blame?? the music fans of course. And I'm confident that the pros contributing their share to the debate have gone via PM's to Mr. Frankberry to get the thread shut down once and for all and to get some users banned.

    And then, you have some music fans that get banned from RD. Personally, I do not think it's right that someone's banned account is shown for all of us to see. Those sorts of things should be dealt in private, not spewed across the boards.

    So maybe it's a combination of the culture here or the fact that the pros are deeply favored and get away with their style of posting that keeps many away, including myself. I mean, how many times a day does someone have to keep insisting that the fans arguments and opinions are "circular" in nature?? I've seen that word circulated here and on other sites more times than certain songs played on oldies stations that people constantly point out as repetitive. Being called names certainly does not help the cause. People are frustrated and agitated and they leave and never return and rightfully so.

    Maybe it's the continued arrogance style that keeps many away and gladly I'm one of them. I have much, much better things to do now than to bring up points that will be squashed in an instant by some. I no longer do.

    After leaving in August and ultimately reading this......I felt a need to post a thought as to why this site is losing members or it's members not posting as much as before

    If everyone respected everyone's opinions as it should be, then things would be different and for the better for both sides. Posters, including myself, would then eventually return.
    Last edited by oldies76; 12-14-2015 at 09:53 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by oldies76 View Post

    If everyone respected everyone's opinions as it should be, then things would be different and for the better for both sides. Posters, including myself, would then eventually return.
    The problem is that you not only have opinions which have been repeatedly proven wrong by those of us who have already seen or made the mistakes you describe as good ideas. There are only so many times that we can tell you that deep cuts don't work, large libraries don't work, slow rotations don't work before, as KM says, you start proving that Einstein was right.

    One thing is to ask, as a listener, why we do or do not do something. Another is to tell us we are wrong, over and over and over and over when we have seen, equally as many times in our careers, stations fail and programmers get fired for doing what you incessantly suggest.

    The idea of your return with the same baggage you usually travel with is frightening.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Groove1670 View Post
    Suggestion: Is is possible to create a industry only section (password required). I know it will be upset some, but It would be a way for the industry to exchance ideas
    I like reading the opinions of 99% of the non-industry posters. They can often express things in a different and useful way, and when they do they are insightful.

    The real issue is with those who are told, by a variety of posters, how the industry works and why, yet they respond with arguments that read, "yes, but that is not what I want you to do". Over and over.
    www.americanradiohistory.com
    Broadcasting Magazine and Yearbooks, RCA Broadcast News, Television Magazine, Radio Annual, Radio News, Sponsor, Television/Radio Age, R&R, Duncan's American Radio, M Street Directory, Broadcast Engineering, db, and more.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldies76 View Post
    And then, you have some music fans that get banned from RD.
    The only people who get banned from here are the ones who become disruptive by their behavior. That includes "music fans" who insist that their programming concepts are superior to those from the professionals who program for a living.

    I mean, how many times a day does someone have to keep insisting that the fans arguments and opinions are "circular" in nature??
    First of all, I'm going to repeat something I have said over and over, which never seems to sink in.

    This is not a "music fan" discussion board. It is not a "radio fan" discussion board.

    It is a board for professionals, made available by the publisher of a respected radio industry magazine. The "fans" are only welcome until they become disruptive. And you have also been consistently blind to the fact that your arguments are circular in nature. When we give you facts, you repeat your opinions practically verbatim. That is the definition of a circular argument.

    As David says, your opinions are worth hearing ... ONCE. When you repeat yourself over and over and over in an outright refusal to accept industry standard practices, your opinions become little more than an irritation. And you then prove Einstein was right.

    Maybe it's the continued arrogance style that keeps many away and gladly I'm one of them.
    If anyone is guilty of "arrogance" it is "the fans" by their attitude of "we know better than the people who do this for a living". We're just trying to educate you by answering your questions. Your insistence that the answers are wrong leads to the feeling that we'd be better off talking to a brick.

    However, I can see that your isolated point of view would define us as "arrogant" because we refuse to bow down to you. If you had a wide-ranging perspective, you'd see that we have no reason to.

    I have said before, in numerous threads, that I do understand your frustration. I would rather that a broader music mix, shorter but more numerous commercial breaks, etc., resonated with the audience. But since it has been proven, by a plethora of fact-based research, not to be the case, I do what I have to do to keep making deposits to my bank account.

    As David has said, we have seen virtually every idea you have suggested tried at some point. We know from seeing those implementations that they do not work. We have seen some good programmers lose their jobs trying to innovate in the way you suggest, and we have (sadly) seen some careers ruined if the failure was spectacular enough. Why, when we have seen all that, should we go along with you, who have no hands-on programming experience?

    That question was rhetorical. Don't answer it ... just think about it.

    If everyone respected everyone's opinions as it should be, then things would be different and for the better for both sides. Posters, including myself, would then eventually return.
    Respect is earned. So is disrespect.

    Every "fan" who has posted here started off with a clean slate. And we do respect hearing opinions and we enjoy educating people as to why their ideas have been tried and why they don't work. Where we start disrespecting the "fans" is when the fans stop respecting that we are doing what we are hired to do.

    Anyone who wants to see your own history of disrespecting the professionals, creating circular arguments, and insisting that you are right in the face of factual answers to your questions and opinions need only search the RD archives for your user name and read threads in which you were an active (and forceful) participant. (I recommend any of the threads that went beyond three pages, as it was your forcefulness that carried those threads far beyond what should have been their active life.)

    The only people who see it your way are "the fans". And you're not the target demo for this board.

  9. #9
    I have suggested to the moderators that a password only industry staff/programmers/management section be created. I enjoy speaking to those who want to learn about our business, and I have spoken to several wonderful individuals, but there are others that don't accept the way the business works thru agencies, advertisers, format etc.

    I miss the way it way it was too, and several broadcasters before me had the same feelings when I entered the industry.

    I was very lucky to have a national programmer (he leads one of the two National groups now, and at the time owned a large national consulting group) who was owner part of a station I worked for, and he taught me much about the industry. We were very green at the time, and asked him to share his knowledge of the industry. We had a top notch station (billing and programming).

    BTW: We dropped our playlist from about 1200 songs to about 500.

    We also had an AM back in 1988 that we sold in tandem with our CHR (it billed much much more). We could not give the AM away. We had a Drug Store, Buick car dealership, and some businesses that catered to a 50+ crowd. Even the business owners that were 50+ wanted the CHR. The AM billed a whopping 4K a month and that was because we had a client who loved the format (MOYL) and ran a spot every other hour. We later switched to N/T , things did not improve.
    Last edited by Groove1670; 12-15-2015 at 10:25 AM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove1670 View Post
    I have suggested to the moderators that a password only industry staff/programmers/management section be created. I enjoy speaking to those who want to learn about our business, and I have spoken to several wonderful individuals, but there are others that don't accept the way the business works thru agencies, advertisers, format etc.
    I can agree about some of this, but I have reservations about this idea...What about those who have retired/quit/made redundant (or, like me, gave up on radio as a viable career but still do PT or volunteer work on the side)? We understand the business side of radio, just aren't bona-fide studio-key carrying personnel. It would be a bummer to lose access to ask questions and talk to some of the heavy-hitters in the industry because interested and eager wannabe-radio folks start ticking them off.

    While I respect and understand new people's desire to get involved in radio (we should encourage this!), I also understand the professional's desire to have more substantial conversations than arguments over solid fact (Trying to get professionals on-board with the idea of 55+ being a desirable demo for most is a perfect example).

    Just remember a lot of folks who used to be in radio use this board to get their fix.

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