Filling a format hole in Houston radio...

Houston is the largest city in the USA without a greatest hits or oldies station. There's not a music station in town that appeals to anyone over 40...but that's about to change. We are launching a new Internet station Bop Radio 1, Houston's Greatest Hits early next year with live DJs, hard-hitting 20/20 news and 4 decades of hits...stay tuned for more details soon...or check out https://www.facebook.com/BopRadio1/


Harold Levine, PD

PS...we're looking for 1-2 salespeople and a morning news talent...retirees welcome who want to get back into the game...email me harold (at) bopradio1.com

radiobop said:

Houston is the largest city in the USA without a greatest hits or oldies station. There's not a music station in town that appeals to anyone over 40...but that's about to change. We are launching a new Internet station Bop Radio 1, Houston's Greatest Hits early next year with live DJs, hard-hitting 20/20 news and 4 decades of hits...stay tuned for more details soon...or check out https://www.facebook.com/BopRadio1/


Harold Levine, PD

PS...we're looking for 1-2 salespeople and a morning news talent...retirees welcome who want to get back into the game...email me harold (at) bopradio1.com

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Congratulations, Harold. Here's hoping for a successful launch and I look forward to having a listen.

...and now for the monthly gripe fest about Houston's overall radio dial and its lack of a classic hits option OTA, I introduce to you, Mr. Bruce Carter. << applause, applause, applause >>

Ha, ha, ha, Bruce. Beat ya to it...

If you want to hear music from the 40s to mid 60s get Sirusxm they have like 4 channels that will fill the void for you

I wish you the very best on the upstart.

I am sure you have invested substantially in marketing the station to reach your audience since the biggest issue online stations have is getting listeners in a number substantial enough to have enough to attract advertisers. The second problem is always creating a need for what you offer to advertisers.

The real trick is to get the word out enough and ongoing in order to get good sampling. Second, the format means nothing to advertisers, results do. The big issue is most businesses are locally based so unless you can get a substantial number of listeners in their trade area that can affect their overall sales, repeat orders don't follow.

Last, many folks want to be 100% on day one. You don't have to be. You can grow and take those steps as revenue allows. Many folks go 100% only to keep cutting back over time, a killer for any new venture.

I'm not trying to sound negative at all. I personally hate seeing great ideas never getting a fair shot because some part of the plan was not as strong as it should be. And I see that happen more often than not from the time buyers that used to try to fund their shows to station operators that figured their product was so excellent people would magically find them and advertisers would beat down their doors.

This will not be like the movie: build it and they will come. About a year back I talked with a college station manager. The school sold their station (not in Houston...another state). They had been an online only station for 3 years. They hosted concerts, had a real presence throughout the college and I thought, did a good job in building awareness and injecting the station in the lives of the students. They has substantial participation with almost 90 hours of live shows a week. There were interviews with bands appearing on campus and local venues. They did frequent giveaways for stuff students would want.

They were at a loss over how few listened to them. With about 12,000 students, they could bare crack 1,000 listening sessions a month. Looking at their data, they averaged 79 unique listeners per 7 day period and total weekly listening hours of about 58.7. This was based on the prior 10 months. To be honest I am shocked at how few listen and time spent listening. Yes they offer an app for listening on ones mobile device. Worst of all, not all were local listeners but most were attending the college.

I talked to a few other schools and online stations and found much the same. It really made me wonder if internet radio has yet to really develop the listening habits of over the air radio versus just the fact there are so many online only options. I find many do not listen to online stations in many situations where radio would be listened to, as if that habit had not developed fully with listeners. I think that will change in the future and if that does, will streaming costs and licensing prevent any potential for profits if listening increases.

What I have always felt might work is a local internet only radio service but I have to wonder about the start up costs. It would need to have advertising support but based on what I have seen, would anyone be willing to pay the enormous cost per thousand to reach your listeners/visitors. You know, you have to charge enough to get something for your time, so you can't sell 2 cent spots.

b-turner said:

I have to wonder about the start up costs.

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The start up costs aren't the real killer. It's keeping the station consistently on the air 24/7 for years. That's what requires deep pockets.

I've launched internet projects with pocket change. But wait til you start paying SoundExchange.

I enjoy the Bop stations. Well programmed and they fill a void for older listeners(and there are many),but this is Internet radio and there is still no over the air terrestrial station playing classic hits. Houston,Boston and Washington are the three biggest markets missing those kind of stations. WROR Boston comes close,but they are on the rock side of Classic hits.

WCBS FM,KRTH and WOGL consistently do well in their respective markets. KRTH is #1 now overall. I don't understand why there isn't a "greatest hits" station in DC,Boston and Houston. I think WRQX in Washington missed the boat going back to their Hot AC format. With the return of Jack Diamond, a segue into a classic hits format would have made sense. WRQX is now going up against WASH and WIAD. With Classic hits WBIG would have been their closest competitor and they are Classic Rock.

b-turner said:

This will not be like the movie: build it and they will come.

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Preach it. Webcasting is a fun hobby but a cruel business. With the royalties certain to rise at the first of the year, it's going to be decision time for a lot of people.

There are lots of internet radio stations playing this kind of music. It's not unique to Houston or "filling a format hole." It's just another internet radio station.

Internet isn't radio. CBS needs to flip one of their stations to classic hits. They are successful elsewhere and they can do it here.

stan said:

Internet isn't radio. CBS needs to flip one of their stations to classic hits. They are successful elsewhere and they can do it here.

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Successful in 6+ (meaningless) ratings, but are they successful where it counts -- in reaching listeners advertisers think they can sell to cost-effectively? The format is dying a slow death nationwide. At some point it will disappear from strongholds like New York and Philadelphia, too. When the target 40-year-old listener was a fan of '90s music growing up, that will be curtains for classic hits, at least any classic hits that include '70s and most '80s pop and r&b. Top 40 radio experienced a sea change in the '90s that continued into the new millennium, and any format that wants to reach 35-54 effectively going forward will have to concentrate on '90s and later and ditch most earlier hits, IMO. Or flip to one of the few formats that still appeals to the agencies and their clients: CHR, Hot AC, Hot Country, Urban. Slow and melodic genres need not apply. This is an uptempo, rhythmic nation, at least in musical preference, and has been for the past decade or so.

DavidEduardo said:

Every one of the CBS stations is over a 3 share in 25-54. Every one has pretty decent billings, too. Which one would they change and why would they sacrifice around $10 million or more in revenue to do it?

Starting a new classic hits station is not something I can recall has been done with great success in recent (PPM era) years. And it is a format that will always be plagued with an aging audience, no matter how much 80's and 90's they push into it.

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You know, if classic hits were truly capable of generating mass amounts of money in this market, wouldn't you guys think KLDE would still be around? It survived a frequency shift, but it couldn't survive its listener base dying off. With that being the case, how could some upstart ever dream of being a winning proposition, when the long time established station couldn't help but become stagnant and downright painful to listen to?

I mean, do we really need to rewind time so we can relive those days of "Hotel California" and "Monday, Monday" repeating 3x a day? Stan has even less of an argument, since he has the seemingly stuck in a rut KCOL-FM over there in the green pastures of Jefferson County available. It's not going to happen on a full powered Senior Road signal, it won't happen on a rimshot of Beaumont's, and likely won't happen anywhere on the dial here in Houston, Texas.

Maybe CBS acquires a translator for KIKK, in the AM revitalization plan. Then, you might have a fair shot at CBS blowing something up for classic hits. Better hope they are on the prowl for one of these "hoppers", though, 'cuz they're a goin' fast.

When people talk about oldies classic hits they are not talking about the arrow they are talking about music from 1950 to 1965 do you really want to hear the same songs 100 played like 10 to 20 times a week that is how the station would run with songs only 2min 15sec long

Is an internet only station comparable to a college internet station? I was asked following my post. Why did I target the college internet station and not just any internet only station?

I feel the college-operated internet station has the best case for being popular. In my mind, the market is very targeted, a pretty much like-minded group with a common interest (college), in a specified locality and surrounded by a common set of activities and functions locally. In addition, a very tech savvy group. In my mind, if an online station can attract a good listenership, this is it if the station is programmed with any level of consistency. At the stations I looked at, the stations permitted individuality in programs but a level of consistency to attract a decent cross-section of the students. I looked at stations that worked hard to build awareness and was involved with listeners by being a part of many activities.

In one instance, a college-based message/announcements channel ran the audio of the internet only station. Surprisingly 70% of the listeners to this station listened exclusively on that cable TV channel versus internet streaming.

As for the research they had done at each station, about 1/2 of 1% was about as good as it got.

One station even told me they loved that they were in new 'digs' in a building visited by many on campus students from other parts of the campus because they could leave the door open to allow those passing through or dropping in to hear the station. That station manager estimated 5% of the student population 'knew' of the station although they heavily promoted and had frequent articles in the college newspaper. They had a format of sorts (at least 4 songs an hour from the 'playlist'). This college had stats that showed an average of about 217 listening hours a week and just under 300 unique listen button clicks a week.

These figures made me realize just how few might be listening at one time and should a merchant be interested in reaching the students, how tiny that reach would be on the college internet only station.

Then again, some of these internet only college stations charge very low rates. One of these stations charges about 8 cents an impression if you buy 17 a day (less than $10 a week). The station that leaves the door open to get new listeners charges $5 a week for 5 spots a day, 7 days a week, averaging 1 client a week. Another station has only some campus clubs hosting events buying spots at $2 each. So, from the side of paying for what they do, and the number of units they sell, they can barely put a dent in the cost to stream.

So, while online listening continues to rise, certainly the stand-alone or small group hosting several streams is not getting those listeners. And most befuddling is that awareness doesn't seem to do much to change that. This leads me to think the listener has yet to build a strong habit for online listening either because listening costs data or is, in their mind, not as accessible as other options.

Sharing some of our ideas...we don't want to be "just another Internet radio station"...we want to offer compelling content of interest to Houstonians...we want to be an audio destination for programming not available anywhere else...with recognized personalities, music not heard on any local station, upbeat jingles and news delivered in the hard hitting entertaining style of the 70s where the delivery is more important than the content...remember David Fowler or Richard Dobbins? We're kind of an updated KQUE which catered to an older audience with four decades of music that was quirky but successful...and we're banking on educating folks to tune in on their phone, tablet or computer...we get emails everyday from folks around the world in their 70s who listen to Radio Swing Worldwide thanking us to death for playing their favorites from the 30s and 40s...surely 40, 50, 60 year-olds can find us once they learn about us...and we do expect to make a big splash...(hopefully with advertisers as well!)...stay tuned for more info once we sign the studio lease...HL

Oh, the breath of our library is extensive with 97% of the Top 40 from 1955-1969 and about 75% of the 70s/early 80s, but our regular playlist of recognizable songs will be roughly the top 50-70 songs from 36 years so we're looking at 1800-2000 songs in regular rotation...jingles are mostly from the 70s from familiar JAM and TM packages intermixed with a lot of acapellas...

And morning hours by design only include about 20 minutes of music allowing for 12 minutes of commercials, 10 minutes of news/weather, 3 minutes of features, 5 minutes of jingles/promos and 10 minutes of talk/phone calls...so songs will not repeat for 4-5 days or more...

It does sound interesting.

A local station is an idea I think needs a solid try. Internet radio is typically all music and nothing else, nothing to say local and nothing outside music to make the listener choose to listen.

I really enjoyed KOKC 1520 back when it was doing the oldies format as KOMA 1520 in Oklahoma City. Being a heritage top 40, they had lots of the original jocks on the air, the jingles of the era and even some old news clips. They used to end their news at one point with the top story at the time the oldies that followed was topping the chart (that was the top story on day/date when this song topped the charts at number??" I really appreciated that the jocks, delivery and jingles were true to the era.

I can tell you content is important but equally important is building awareness and selling clients. Please be sure as much attention to these as is spent on content so you're not hurting in any aspect. There are so many in radio who know sales but don't know programming or they know programming but not sales. I was lucky, working on air and in programming, dragged kicking and screaming in to sales and finally management. I'll be the first to say it's 50% programming and 50% sales. If it hits 51% for either one, that's a problem. I love radio so I really hate seeing great concepts and offerings falling by the wayside because one side, sales or programming ruled leading the other to suffer.

TheBigA said:

There are lots of internet radio stations playing this kind of music. It's not unique to Houston or "filling a format hole." It's just another internet radio station.

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Yes that was broadly my thoughts. I wish the OP luck, of course, but unless they have long term plans to get onto FM, AM or at least a HD subchannel (and backers with deep enough pockets to make that happen) I don't see where they will go with this.

DISCLAIMER- I live in the UK- the local situation may be different, but I've seen a few similar projects come and go on this side of the puddle. One or two continue in a small scale way, others have sunk without a trace, none have really made it into full time businesses.

An interesting point from the UK.

Being in radio, I see so many letting their station become about them and their tastes in lieu of what their audience wants. The trap comes by putting forth your best idea and being sold on it but not realizing they are their only cheerleader. Sure their friends might express how great such a station would be and frankly this is the nail in the coffin. It makes one think listeners will beat a path to you and creates an image of demand so great you don't have to put much effort in to building awareness and selling.

I was lucky in that I was on the programming side, then the sales side and finally management. One owner certainly helped me mold my thinking. Any idea I had was met with the question of "How does this make me money?". His point is any financial help you get will be met by that question and you have to explain how and why. If I got him listening I had to show why it would work and demonstrate a money trail. His point is investors want their money back.

Like I have said, I have seen many people try and fail because it became more about what they want than what the audience wants. Yes, I am talking people in radio station ownership. More often than not they learn maintaining their operation becomes this huge financial burden they can never repay. Sales never come fast enough. Pretty much, if you can't pay the bills for a year without income plus your initial investment with a clear path for sales to carry that burden, then you'll never dig your way out.

If it takes $250,000 to start and monthly expenses of $25,000 a month, what is your plan for paying off the first year's $550,000 and if you can, what happens when a hungry competitor tries to steal what you built? It is pretty easy to hit 1 million before the sales can carry the monthly expenses, so once you get there, how does that $1,000,000 get paid back?

I urge upstarts to always be less than you can be. Listeners and advertisers see every advance as a success and every cut as failure. Everyone wants to ride the coattails of a winner, even the underdog that does the impossible. If you are 100% on day one, you have nowhere to go. And if you have to cut back 10% because the sales are not on schedule, then you are perceived as losing or failing. For example, laying off the night jocks to go jockless is seen as failing. Being completely jockless and then adding a morning show is seen as successful.

I am not trying to be critical of anyone, but you might be amazed how many folks fall in to these traps and wind up having to sell at a percentage of the debt or shut down.

There is a adult hits station on Sunny 99.1 HD-2 for people who has HD radios. It's pretty good I listen to it some.

jras20 said:

There is a adult hits station on Sunny 99.1 HD-2 for people who has HD radios. It's pretty good I listen to it some.

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Yes - I discovered it several months ago - good stuff. It is definitely on my presets! It kind of replaces the HD-2 that used to be on 97.1. Still not as good, though, as the HD-2 from KNDE.