98.7 will forever be part of NY Radio history in the 80s. I wish someone could make a website out of it.
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Station "Suicides"
- Thread starter Jonathan7157
- Start date
98.7 will forever be part of NY Radio history in the 80s. I wish someone could make a website out of it.
THIS JUST IN:
There has been a possible station "suicide" in Miami. WMXJ-FM just let go of airstaff and there could be a format change on the way according to RadioInsight and the Miami Herald. Also, according to Radio-Online, the reason this is a VERY BIG "SUICIDE" is because they are in the Top 10 in a Top 20 market, #6 to be exact as of November and it's the only classic hits station in South Florida. WILL THIS LEAVE MIAMI AS THE BIGGEST MARKET W/O A CLASSIC HITS STATION?!
RadioInsight: https://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/95456/airstaff-out-at-magic-102-7-miami-flip-next/
Miami Herald: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article48621735.html
Radio-Online: http://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb429
There has been a possible station "suicide" in Miami. WMXJ-FM just let go of airstaff and there could be a format change on the way according to RadioInsight and the Miami Herald. Also, according to Radio-Online, the reason this is a VERY BIG "SUICIDE" is because they are in the Top 10 in a Top 20 market, #6 to be exact as of November and it's the only classic hits station in South Florida. WILL THIS LEAVE MIAMI AS THE BIGGEST MARKET W/O A CLASSIC HITS STATION?!
RadioInsight: https://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/95456/airstaff-out-at-magic-102-7-miami-flip-next/
Miami Herald: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article48621735.html
Radio-Online: http://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb429
No. 6 in 6+ is meaningless. If the station isn't top 3 in its target demo (upper end of 25-54) then even a lower rated format will be a bigger moneymaker providing it can chase off the 55+ crowd and replace them with sales pitch-gullible younger listeners.
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
Dude, chill out. (In other words, stop SHOUTING HYSTERICALLY.)
A station's position in the free-to-the-public 6+ ratings does not tell the entire story. And I already told you that back in post #9.
There must be something happening with their 25-54 numbers that is driving this. Unless you have access to the full Nielsen ratings for the market, you have no basis for your hysteria. I'm sure David E. will be along any minute now to give the full story.
And for the record, Houston (market #6) doesn't have a Classic Hits station either, so to your shouted question about Miami (market #11) ... no.
I am getting to the point where I can tell which posters never worked in radio from their unwavering dedication to panic over the 6+ numbers. I'm beginning to think I should ask Streamline to institute a board rule prohibiting any kind of predictions, etc. based on those meaningless numbers.
A station's position in the free-to-the-public 6+ ratings does not tell the entire story. And I already told you that back in post #9.
There must be something happening with their 25-54 numbers that is driving this. Unless you have access to the full Nielsen ratings for the market, you have no basis for your hysteria. I'm sure David E. will be along any minute now to give the full story.
And for the record, Houston (market #6) doesn't have a Classic Hits station either, so to your shouted question about Miami (market #11) ... no.
I am getting to the point where I can tell which posters never worked in radio from their unwavering dedication to panic over the 6+ numbers. I'm beginning to think I should ask Streamline to institute a board rule prohibiting any kind of predictions, etc. based on those meaningless numbers.
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The station definitely has a problem, as it is now 15th in 25-54 (which, along with 18-49 and 18-34 are all that matters) and down from 11th as recently as the March book.
Most of their numbers are in the valueless 55+ demos.
While I would have previously predicted a change to a less rock-centered classic hits, more faithful to the Miami music heritage, it looks like they are going to do a format switch... perhaps along the lines of their successful rhythmic gold and current format in San Francisco which has made a major impact.
If the station had chosen a format modification, they likely would not have released all the staff and brought in a PD from California.
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
There you go, Jonathan. Now stop acting so hysterically.
What good are 6+ numbers, then? If such numbers are so meaningless, why does Arbitron bother to release them?
Because they are not of much value. Since it cost so much to conduct the survey each month, quarter, etc., they rely on paying subscribers to release the more important and valuable portion of the surveying. The 6+ are even flawed because stations not subscribing are eliminated from the results. This is less crucial in large markets but in smaller markets you might find only one radio group is a subscriber while all the other stations are not. In larger markets it might be the little independent station that does not subscribe, but in a city like Twin Falls, has only 4 stations listed, all owned by the same company and San Angelo, Texas is identical...only Foster paying for it.
Seems to me this attitude of 55+ being 'valueless' needs scrutiny if not scrubbing from broadcasters thinking. The demo has money, time and inclination to reward themselves with discretionary purchases - like holidays, cars, motorcycles, organic food, health and beauty products, elective surgery and maybe grandchildren who need Xboxes, iPhones, hoverboards, musical instruments, clothes, books, concert tickets etc. The concept of being 'valueless' is in itself valueless and denigrates the medium's capacity to reach across demographics. Western nation's populations are aging, people are living longer and the demo is growing. Oh, Glen Frey is 67, Don Henley is 68, Annie Lennox is 60, Mick Jagger is 72, Carly Simon is 70 and George Clooney has one year left before he becomes 'valueless'. Disregard it at your financial peril.
Broadcasters do not "think" that way. Advertisers do... there are essentially no ad buys against 55+ so stations that program to that demo don't get much agency business... maybe none if the 25-54 audience is not large.
So don't blame radio for the marketing objectives of advertisers.
Radio would gladly target 55+ if the advertisers would buy. If you think you can make it without the agency buys, unless you are in a small town, you would be incorrect. Sure, you can get $200 a month clients that require enough time you can earn about $3.50 to $4 an hour. The accounts that can spend enough to matter have ad agencies placing their buys. I write from experience. Sadly research says 55+ advertising buys produce results that are substantially less than younger demographics.
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
Another "shoot from the hip without doing any research" poster heard from.
You could have at least read one of the hundreds of posts scattered across every thread that has discussed the "over 54" advertiser problem. One of us always provides that answer in every such thread.
And you even created a brand new account just to post what to us has become the "ho-hum" response by the uninformed and uneducated on the subject.
Honestly, don't you think any of us ever gave this any thought before?
By the way, I am in that 'ignored' demographic. I have more time, more money and fewer obligations that allow me much more freedom than I had when I was 40. But the ad agencies think I cost too much for advertisers to pay to get me to buy their product. It is simply cheaper to convince a younger person to change their buying habits. Thus, it is not the cash, but the cost to convert a customer that is the problem. After all, if you're 30 and my ad can get you to buy from me, I might have a lifelong customer. Chances are I will not have as much cash in 10 years when Social Security kicks in.
Funny thing, being over 55, I choose a LPFM locally because they play a mix that ranges from Adele's latest to maybe Rascal Flatts to The Beatles, Bob Seger to Tears For Fear to EMF. I'd normally say that variety wouldn't work, but the way the operator mixes things, I rather like it. Sure, I could care less for some songs beyond the 1990s, but they are familiar and I know the next one might be one of those 'oh wow' songs. Yep, I like classic hits and classic rock too.
Funny thing, being over 55, I choose a LPFM locally because they play a mix that ranges from Adele's latest to maybe Rascal Flatts to The Beatles, Bob Seger to Tears For Fear to EMF. I'd normally say that variety wouldn't work, but the way the operator mixes things, I rather like it. Sure, I could care less for some songs beyond the 1990s, but they are familiar and I know the next one might be one of those 'oh wow' songs. Yep, I like classic hits and classic rock too.
Well, SOMEBODY thinks they can advertise to the older demo and get results - at least on TV. Look at all the diginets whose ads almost exclusively target the 50+ crowd. Since those ads have been running for a prolonged time now I think they must be getting results.
Perhaps the older demo problem is largely exclusive to radio?
Perhaps the older demo problem is largely exclusive to radio?
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
That is a valid point, and your conclusion (in the form of a question ... Alex Trebek would be proud of you, tuna) is equally valid.
As has been said from time to time, the ad business is about "impressions". Agencies buy based on the cost per thousand impressions (CPM) in their target demo. Television creates those impressions far more easily than does radio, because of the added visual information.
The "reason" the agencies don't buy 55+ in radio is that the audio-only limitation creates a requirement for more impressions before the customers (listeners/viewers) buy. Let's face it, the currently-ubiquitous staircase chair lift commercial would be a much more difficult sell on radio. So would reverse mortgages absent the visual image of Henry Winkler or the late Fred Thompson, or life insurance with the aforementioned Mr. Trebek as spokesperson.
One should also consider, when looking at this from the diginet viewpoint, that unlike radio, all the programming breaks have to have commercials plugged into them ... the programming is not as fluid as a radio station that can add or drop music to fill an hour, regardless of the amount of commercial time. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a high percentage of those ads targeted at seniors are "bonus" insertions to fill an empty slot.
Those advertisers are probably getting a lower CPM from the diginets than they could ever get with radio, if you consider all the factors.
Given the excessive number of repetitions I would agree with that.
I might add some ads you see on TV are 'per inquiry'. Just like in radio, the TV station simply plugs in a 'per inquiry' spot in an unsold avail. The benefit is a commission from a customer that purchases the advertised item, normally via a toll free number or online. In other words, the thinking is the 'per inquiry' spot might pay but a station promo or PSA never will.
I might note, the way these companies determine who gets the commission is determined by locality. In other words, if the buyer is in your coverage area or area where your station can be viewed, then you get the sale. I was told each station gets a toll free number exclusive to their market (ie: Nashville, Seattle and San Antonio might have that same toll free number but not another station in your coverage).
I recall we, in radio, aired the Sears Vinyl Siding spots year ago and got some small monthly checks but usually it equated to chump change per airing...then again, the fact we could run the spots tells you how popular we were...near the bottom of the barrel at that point. Literally we had some syndicated shows with specific length stop sets to cover and needed something since we didn't have the commercial inventory (even though we bonused clients as well).
This is not to say TV only sells 55+ via 'per inquiry' but rather that all you see is not always a paid spot.
I might note, the way these companies determine who gets the commission is determined by locality. In other words, if the buyer is in your coverage area or area where your station can be viewed, then you get the sale. I was told each station gets a toll free number exclusive to their market (ie: Nashville, Seattle and San Antonio might have that same toll free number but not another station in your coverage).
I recall we, in radio, aired the Sears Vinyl Siding spots year ago and got some small monthly checks but usually it equated to chump change per airing...then again, the fact we could run the spots tells you how popular we were...near the bottom of the barrel at that point. Literally we had some syndicated shows with specific length stop sets to cover and needed something since we didn't have the commercial inventory (even though we bonused clients as well).
This is not to say TV only sells 55+ via 'per inquiry' but rather that all you see is not always a paid spot.
One of the good examples, too, is the company that has those cruises on the Danube in Europe. The whole ad is about visual appeal... seeing up close what a traveler would experience on the river including castles, cathedrals and cities on the banks. On radio it is just a boat ride. On TV, it is an experience.
No amount of good copy can create the impression that a well crafted TV spot can make.
Those finely crafted spots for the river cruises, ED medications and reverse mortgages are examples of the paid commercials that do target 55 and older. The ones for chair lifts, bathtubs with doors, scooters for folks who are not mobile, etc., are generally PI spots. Those are either fillers or produce enough revenue to be valid contributors to the bottom line.
There are relatively few PI spots on local radio. There are more on syndicated and network services, but again they are used to fill
Gutter Helmet spots (call in the next two minutes) on TV are an example of this. Showing how the gutter works on TV is simple, radio it just doesn't.
Broadcasters share at least 50% of the so-called 'blame' for the exclusion of plus 55 as a marketable audience. Where are the stations and programmers aggressively pursuing the 55 million 'valueless' US citizens? Almost a quarter of America's workforce is over 55. 21st Century radio broadcasters program to the cheapest most accessible demo with 'local content' destroying playout software - cluster/auditorium music research - computer generated spot buy and sell deals. This is not an anti-automation rant because there are multiple benefits offered to broadcasters through digitization of systems - it's the abuse of automation in programming where the problem lies. Clear Channel, Bill Clinton and RCS et al have a lot to answer for in degradation of radio as a medium. I just don't and never will buy into the 'helpless' attitude prevalent in so much radio 'thinking' today. And don't take this personally because it's not meant to be - but abandoning an older age group is intellectually and creatively lazy 'thinking' and it's become endemic in radio. The too hard basket is too close to the programmer/management desk and is filling too quickly.
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