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Call Letters - KFRC

michael hagerty said:
No need. As KM says, only call letter freaks would care. "KFRC" means nothing in L.A. And having those calls on KCBS' FM simulcast sure doesn't keep them from having a great top-of-the-hour ID:

http://www.tophour.com/audio/San%20Francisco-San%20Jose%20CA/am0740_2014-12_kcbs_sfybush.mp3

And CBS is doing nice stuff with KFRC HD-2, playing classic hits with an emphasis on stuff that was big on KFRC in the 70s and early 80s with IDs and jingles from back in the day. Driving around San Francisco, it sounds about right...only missing the jocks:

http://player.radio.com/listen/station/kfrccom-classic-hits
Click to expand...

In regard to KFRC HD-2, they are playing the exact same music and ID bed/jingles that we used on 106.9 when it was live with jocks. What little imaging they are still using on HD-2 is stuff I threw together in '08...the good sweepers either rarely play or have been removed. I wasn't even aware it still existed.
 
LKellerIII said:
I agree with Michael and KM. I'm not a big KCBS listener (all commercials all the time, with an occasional news segment), but I love that TOH ID. It was a bit disconcerting at first hearing those call letters on a news station, but (sentimentalist that I am), it's still nice having them in the Bay Area.

There was an argument a few years ago on this site about K-F-R-C, which invoke San FRanCisco even though the calls were apparently given in sequence to the Don Lee station at its inception, by the agency that preceded the FCC. I dug up some evidence that stations in that era WERE in fact, given requested call letters on occasion. The first known request was the banker from Des Moines who requested (and was granted) "WHO" in April of 1924. KFRC did not come along until September 1924. But regardless, the KFRC calls have historical meaning, and would be silly to park in Los Angeles...not to mention all the paperwork and FCC fees involved for CBS for no possible gain.

Possible evidence for Don Lee requesting the KFRC call letters - KFRB (Bakersfield) didn't exist until 1948, and KFRE (FREsno) went on the air in 1937. Couldn't find anything on KFRD.

I don't know the reason the KCBS call letters were allowed by CBS to remain in San Francisco, while KNBC was rightfully moved to LA. Growing up in LA it was odd to have KABC (radio and TV), KNBC (TV) and KNX/KNXT. I assume the rationale at the time was that KCBS was locked in a ratings fight with KGO radio, and it made sense to keep them for the status it conveyed, and KNX listeners in LA were used to those historical calls, and there was no point changing. But I'm just speculating.

BTW - Ronald Reagan worked at WHO for 4 years in the 1930s.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KKYX

Interestingly KABC was on a station in San Antonio before those call letters landed on KECA-AM 790 (Now Cumulus O&O) and KECA-TV 7 for the ABC O&O in Los Angeles. But then again by the time ABC got those call letters (ABC had the evidence at that point that Los Angeles is a bigger media market than San Francisco).

When KCBS and KNBC were here (What evidence did CBS and NBC get to prove that San Francisco is a bigger Media Market than LA)?





http://www.sanantonioradiomemories.com/buckle.htm
 
RadioPatrol said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KKYX

Interestingly KABC was on a station in San Antonio before those call letters landed on KECA-AM 790 (Now Cumulus O&O) and KECA-TV 7 for the ABC O&O in Los Angeles. But then again by the time ABC got those call letters (ABC had the evidence at that point that Los Angeles is a bigger media market than San Francisco).

When KCBS and KNBC were here (What evidence did CBS and NBC get to prove that San Francisco is a bigger Media Market than LA)?





http://www.sanantonioradiomemories.com/buckle.htm
Click to expand...

WNPR radio is in Market 52 (Hartford-New Britain). What evidence did NPR get to prove Hartford was a bigger media market than LA, SF, Houston, Cleveland, Tampa, Phoenix, Milwaukee, etc. etc. etc.?
 
CTListener said:
What evidence did NPR get to prove Hartford was a bigger media market than LA, SF, Houston, Cleveland, Tampa, Phoenix, Milwaukee, etc. etc. etc.?
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You probably know this already but NPR doesn't own WNPR, and in fact NPR is not allowed to own any radio station. The stations in a sense own NPR. KNPR is in Las Vegas, and it's owned by Nevada Public Radio. That's how they justify their call letters.
 
TheBigA said:
You probably know this already but NPR doesn't own WNPR, and in fact NPR is not allowed to own any radio station. The stations in a sense own NPR. KNPR is in Las Vegas, and it's owned by Nevada Public Radio. That's how they justify their call letters.
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KPBS San Diego is the same they happen to carry the PBS initials simply because they are a member station of the public TV outlet. However California State University owns KPBS. Yes its the same group that owns Capital Public Radio in Sacramento.
 
RadioPatrol said:
Interestingly KABC was on a station in San Antonio before those call letters landed on KECA-AM 790 (Now Cumulus O&O) and KECA-TV 7 for the ABC O&O in Los Angeles. But then again by the time ABC got those call letters (ABC had the evidence at that point that Los Angeles is a bigger media market than San Francisco).
Click to expand...

The KECA calls were changed because when Earle C. Anthony was forced to sell KECA, he did not want a station identified with his initials in the hands of another company.
 
SMoore said:
In regard to KFRC HD-2, they are playing the exact same music and ID bed/jingles that we used on 106.9 when it was live with jocks. What little imaging they are still using on HD-2 is stuff I threw together in '08...the good sweepers either rarely play or have been removed. I wasn't even aware it still existed.
Click to expand...

Yep---and in the 3+ years I've been living in Northern California, it's become apparent to me that what you guys loaded into the system nine years ago (with the exception of the occasional commercial) hasn't changed a bit. In fact, they still promote kfrc.com in one of the IDs or sweepers...and that site's been gone a long time. Still, for the occasional listen, it's the next best thing to the original, for those of us who grew up on mid-70s KFRC.
 
RadioPatrol said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KKYX

Interestingly KABC was on a station in San Antonio before those call letters landed on KECA-AM 790 (Now Cumulus O&O) and KECA-TV 7 for the ABC O&O in Los Angeles. But then again by the time ABC got those call letters (ABC had the evidence at that point that Los Angeles is a bigger media market than San Francisco).

When KCBS and KNBC were here (What evidence did CBS and NBC get to prove that San Francisco is a bigger Media Market than LA)?
Click to expand...

I doubt it was about evidence and proof as much as it was heritage. NBC didn't own a radio station in Los Angeles. And NBC was very much a radio company. When Channel 4 in L.A. signed on in 1949, it got the calls KNBH (NBC Hollywood). Five years later, they switched it to KRCA, because in 1954, RCA (NBC's parent company) was a bigger deal. In 1962, someone thought it was worth making the switch to KNBC, and since those calls were on an underperforming radio station in San Francisco, they probably thought they wouldn't do any damage by changing those calls to KNBR.

As for CBS, when it bought KNX, those were established call letters, with 14 years worth of equity in Los Angeles. It made sense (especially in the early days, when it was a simulcast) for the FM to be KNX-FM and when CBS bought Channel 2, to christen it KNXT (KNX Television).

Frankly, I've always thought the KCBS calls on the FM and TV in L.A. didn't make much sense. I suppose in the early 80s the thought was that the KCBS calls should grace a TV station, and they didn't own one in San Francisco. Now, of course, they do...and had they sat still, it could be KCBS AM & FM (for the radio news product) and KCBS-TV (which would make some branding sense, since there is some sharing of staff and resources.
 
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michael hagerty said:
I doubt it was about evidence and proof as much as it was heritage. NBC didn't own a radio station in Los Angeles.
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Interesting topic...back in the 1920s, San Francisco and LA had about the same population...both about a half million people. NBC based its west coast ops in San Francisco originally, and then built a new Radio City West in Hollywood in the late 30s.
 
michael hagerty said:
I doubt it was about evidence and proof as much as it was heritage. NBC didn't own a radio station in Los Angeles. And NBC was very much a radio company. When Channel 4 in L.A. signed on in 1949, it got the calls KNBH (NBC Hollywood). Five years later, they switched it to KRCA, because in 1954, RCA (NBC's parent company) was a bigger deal. In 1962, someone thought it was worth making the switch to KNBC, and since those calls were on an underperforming radio station in San Francisco, they probably thought they wouldn't do any damage by changing those calls to KNBR.

As for CBS, when it bought KNX, those were established call letters, with 14 years worth of equity in Los Angeles. It made sense (especially in the early days, when it was a simulcast) for the FM to be KNX-FM and when CBS bought Channel 2, to christen it KNXT (KNX Television).

Frankly, I've always thought the KCBS calls on the FM and TV in L.A. didn't make much sense. I suppose in the early 80s the thought was that the KCBS calls should grace a TV station, and they didn't own one in San Francisco. Now, of course, they do...and had they sat still, it could be KCBS AM & FM (for the radio news product) and KCBS-TV (which would make some branding sense, since there is some sharing of staff and resources.
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Although I'm sure KPIX has some value too since they've been Channel 5's call letters for 60+ years. They've recently gone back to the branding "KPIX 5" instead of the "CBS 5" that they were using for a few years.
 
LKellerIII said:
Although I'm sure KPIX has some value too since they've been Channel 5's call letters for 60+ years. They've recently gone back to the branding "KPIX 5" instead of the "CBS 5" that they were using for a few years.
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Absolutely, Llew. Though if the calls had changed to KCBS-TV in 1996, would anyone really care now?
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFOX-TV

Interestingly KFOX is a Sinclair owned station in Texas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFOX-TV

and WFOX is a Cox Owned station both with Fox Affiliations. Im surprised that Metromedia during the ownership change to Fox didn't have KTTV Los Angeles and WNYW New York get the WFOX/KFOX call letters for their flagship stations. Or at that point it was not known if Fox was even going to be a successful network during the startup years.
 
RadioPatrol said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFOX-TV

Interestingly KFOX is a Sinclair owned station in Texas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFOX-TV

and WFOX is a Cox Owned station both with Fox Affiliations. Im surprised that Metromedia during the ownership change to Fox didn't have KTTV Los Angeles and WNYW New York get the WFOX/KFOX call letters for their flagship stations. Or at that point it was not known if Fox was even going to be a successful network during the startup years.
Click to expand...

Call letters really don't mean all that much in television. There are exceptions, but what advantage would having KFOX and WFOX have given FOX in L.A. and New York?
 
Back to KFRC - I remember reading a story years ago that when James Gabbert owned TV20 - he offered to buy the KFRC call letters from RKO General. I believe TV 20 was KTZO at the time (prior to "KOFY"). This was when 610 had made the switch to "Magic 61," so presumably the call letters were just used once an hour. RKO General did not want to give up the calls. And of course, this is when the KFRC was still fresh in peoples' minds from the Top 40 days.
 
LKellerIII said:
Back to KFRC - I remember reading a story years ago that when James Gabbert owned TV20 - he offered to buy the KFRC call letters from RKO General. I believe TV 20 was KTZO at the time (prior to "KOFY"). This was when 610 had made the switch to "Magic 61," so presumably the call letters were just used once an hour. RKO General did not want to give up the calls. And of course, this is when the KFRC was still fresh in peoples' minds from the Top 40 days.
Click to expand...

True, but after RKO decided to keep the calls, they started to embrace them again. By 1990 or so, the top of the hour ID was a voice saying "Magic 61" and then the "You" series legal ID from 1976.
 
michael hagerty said:
True, but after RKO decided to keep the calls, they started to embrace them again. By 1990 or so, the top of the hour ID was a voice saying "Magic 61" and then the "You" series legal ID from 1976.
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Wait I thought RKO was leaving the broadcasting business at the time KFRC was flipped in the late 1980's over licensing issues from the FCC.
 
There was speculations that they were going to drop the KFRC calls and become KMMG, to reflect Magic 61. But as everyone knows, they did not go through with it. James Gabbert was ready to swoop up the KFRC calls.
 
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