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Shots fired near KOMO News crew in Mount Vernon
- Thread starter Bongwater
- Start date
Oscar Madison
Leading Participant
Typical media self-involvement. They think, they make this important. Notice, they don't even say the shots were fired at them. No, the shots were fired on another street, presumably by cars that had passed and then turned. Then this "reporter" and "photographer" run into somebody's house and the cops have to escort them from the area.
Used to be TV reporters were not supposed to run away.
Used to be TV reporters were not supposed to run away.
I've been in the business for a long time and have never heard that edict. Just curious... Have you been a street reporter that's been told by your supervisor to not be concerned for your safety? Yeah, I didn't think so.
Safety of street reporters are becoming an increasing concern for stations and networks. It used to be the number one safety concern was checking for power lines above a live truck or not setting up too close to traffic. Over the past few years, there are documented examples of jackasses and deranged people assaulting reporters during or after their live hits. Now you have groups posting the results of actions against reporters or punking live shots on YouTube, encouraging competition between fellow jackasses.
Whether it's running behind the reporter screaming profanity, or some redneck shooting in the air when they see a helpless reporter doing a stand-up, do you really think these folks and the station or network shouldn't be concerned with their safety?
Oscar Madison
Leading Participant
Maybe you've read about how and why CBS hired Dan Rather from their Houston affiliate. He covered a hurricane. Went out in the storm and into the water in a flooded area - in the words of Walter Cronkite, "up to his ass in water moccasins." Ed Murrow stood on a rooftop in London during the Blitz, while the Germans dropped bombs. Most Londoners were down in shelters or in "The Tube" (the subway).
Anybody who has experienced military basic training would know that when under fire (which this crew was not), the last thing (and the dumbest) one should do is run.
I put the word "reporter" in quotes because mic holders doing stand ups are not reporters. Live stand ups are show biz, not reporting. They are ridiculous, add nothing to a story and invite the kind of behavior Kelly described. But TV has this obsession with going LIVE-LIVE-LIVE, standing out where nothing is happening, reading barely rewritten wire copy or press releases, and maybe getting a sound bite or two from passersby.
What's amazing is the station didn't bury this incident and the "raw footage." Of course, the classic is still the "raw footage" of a "reporter" falling out of the bucket while doing a "live shot" on a grape stomping competition. Almost as funny as Lucy stomping grapes.
And maybe the treatment of so-called "reporters" during "live shots" is an indication of general public contempt for the media, especially local TV news.
Anybody who has experienced military basic training would know that when under fire (which this crew was not), the last thing (and the dumbest) one should do is run.
I put the word "reporter" in quotes because mic holders doing stand ups are not reporters. Live stand ups are show biz, not reporting. They are ridiculous, add nothing to a story and invite the kind of behavior Kelly described. But TV has this obsession with going LIVE-LIVE-LIVE, standing out where nothing is happening, reading barely rewritten wire copy or press releases, and maybe getting a sound bite or two from passersby.
What's amazing is the station didn't bury this incident and the "raw footage." Of course, the classic is still the "raw footage" of a "reporter" falling out of the bucket while doing a "live shot" on a grape stomping competition. Almost as funny as Lucy stomping grapes.
And maybe the treatment of so-called "reporters" during "live shots" is an indication of general public contempt for the media, especially local TV news.
Unless they served in the military prior, street reporters aren't given military training, such as what to do when being shot at, or around.
So because they're doing their job, they are somehow inviting to be embarrassed or physically assaulted? And because you don't think a station should report live in the field, then reporters are fair game for jackasses? That's like saying a woman who wears fashionable clothing by today's standards, is asking to be assaulted.
The reason stations push for their reporters to be live, is viewers, when researched, believe the credibility of a station or network is better over another station that isn't live. Just because you are cynical about their motives is a minority opinion.
Sounds like you speak from a like mind. But I wouldn't go so far as to call whackadoo's and jackasses that assault or harass reporters doing their jobs "general public".
Oscar Madison
Leading Participant
Activists can cry "equal pay for equal work" but this one of any number of reasons why work is seldom equal. And it's highly irresponsible to send anyone into a high-crime area, to report on an outbreak of drive by shootings, without appropriate training on what to do when shot "around" or any other dangerous situation.
Just like somebody who walks down the street flashing a big wad of bills is asking to be mugged. Or somebody who doesn't look both ways before crossing the street is asking for a trip to the hospital. Or somebody who insults a big guy's mother in a bar is asking for loose teeth.
If somebody comes up to me to ask "how did you feel" when your house blew away or your kid got run over (just doing their job, right?) deserves whatever they get.
When researched? Researched how? Asking people - hypothetically - if "live" means better credibility. Since everybody does these "live shots" there's no way to asses in a real world context how live affects credibility. Besides, the only thing "live" is a person standing outside someplace (with nothing happening). The B-roll of something actually happening is hours old. So something happens and then a van or truck stays parked, with a crew on the clock, for an entire shift so they can so "live" at 11pm. Idiotic.
You should have taken some social psychology classes in school. They are part of the general public and their "acting out" does reflect a climate of public opinion.
A print reporter goes to the scene and then writes a report. A TV reporter goes to the scene and then feeds video to the stations.
Same exact thing. Go to the location, find out what happened (Who, what, why, when, where) by talking to witnesses/firemen/police/spoksepeople/relatives and then send a report back to the media center.
Newspapers don't have live reports because they are, even with the Internet, somewhat static. TV stations have live reports and plenty of pre-recorded on the scene reports- The ratings and independent proprietary research show that the more local street reports a newscast has, the better a chance it has of getting better ratings. People like to see the reporter in action or on the scene and they like to see the scene itself.
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I took sociology, psychology and cultural anthropology classes but I don't need that knowledge to know that the people who harass reporters doing their jobs are a very tiny minority of the population and share none of the characteristics of the "general public" and are neither admired nor respected by the general public. They are misfits, outcasts and morons.
Mount Vernon, WA a high crime area? That's news to me. Where I work now, we have TV and radio reporters working all over the world, including the mother of all high crime areas, Syria, Yemen and Iraq. None of them have any military-based training, because they don't carry weapons. These reporters are in harms way to get the story back and contrary to how you choose to marginalize reporters, I for one applaud their work.
The majority of TV station groups do their research at least yearly. There are several news consulting companies that do news-centric research, which may include focus groups, call-out research, or boxes in households outside of ratings. Most of the TV networks have ongoing research contracts. Unlike radio, TV has access to ratings on a daily basis.
The reason you'll see a TV ENG or SNG truck set up in a location for the day is to stake a spot for reporting as needed. Once you find a place to park, you don't want to give it up.
You assume that I didn't take sociology or psychology classes. You would be wrong. But to David's point, one doesn't need to take classes to learn about pin heads.
Oscar:
You have managed to insult a lot of professionals.
Television Reporters do not read "barely rewritten wire copy." They get the information by interviewing the people involved. They write their own copy (often sending their copy to the wire services). After they have gathered enough information, they do a "live shot" to report what they have discovered.
Live television (and radio) news reporting works. As some stations proclaimed decades ago: "First, fast and factual."
You have managed to insult a lot of professionals.
Television Reporters do not read "barely rewritten wire copy." They get the information by interviewing the people involved. They write their own copy (often sending their copy to the wire services). After they have gathered enough information, they do a "live shot" to report what they have discovered.
Live television (and radio) news reporting works. As some stations proclaimed decades ago: "First, fast and factual."
Oscar Madison
Leading Participant
My experience and observation is different from yours. If you consider attended a staged event (speech, press conference, ribbon cutting) as "gathering information," OK. If you count man on the street interviews as "persons involved," OK. And I will allow for some exceptions. Dinner hour news is not as flagrant an example of TV mic holders attempting to create the appearance of reporting as the early morning local news shows where mic holders stand where something happened yesterday (even where nothing happened yesterday), reciting information from some other source. And yes, I've heard live shots when I was looking at the same wire story I was hearing "from the scene."
When I worked in your market, yes, there was real local TV reporting but that was a long time ago. And they didn't have all those ENG toys to play with and crews were expected to gather information on multiple stories, not just sit at one scene all day. WJRT did real reporting to extent they fed stories to the Free Press (when it was still a good paper).
My television experience was in Tampa.
Ribbon-cutting and other "events" were covered by a Photographer and possibly by a stand-up "Talent."
News Reporters covered the real stories.
Ribbon-cutting and other "events" were covered by a Photographer and possibly by a stand-up "Talent."
News Reporters covered the real stories.
I am in market 138. I just skimmed my TiVo recording of last night's 6 PM news on one of the several local TV stations that do news:
- Live report on reopening of flood damaged I-10 at Desert Center. Reporter on scene, 60 miles from studios, interviewing construction crew doing rebuild and a police officer in charge managing reduced-lane traffic.
- Interview in a Palm Desert location with the County Supervisor about when full repairs would be completed.
- Interview at Chiriaco Summit (nearest gas and food) about how the closure had affected business.
- Report from Banning (40 miles away) on a court case involving an abduction and assault. Interview with prosecuter.
- Report from the scene of the newest wildfire, with interviews with local resident and fire official. Also included several shots of how smoke was seen "down in the Valley"
- Sports director's live interview with a local who just won a world championship prize fight.
- Report on status of court case involving street racing with a fatality including station's own footage of the incident and of illegal street racing in same location.
- Puff piece on dog show with cute pets and brief interviews with pet owners and fanciers.
- Extensive weather report including several full motion shots of the day's unusual weather (low temperatures for the season and rare winds and dust).
- Video as part of story on several day closure of a freeway access while construction of new ramps and interchanges are being done; status on whole job.
- Two video reports on Special Olympics, several teams for which are staying in the Valley and practicing.
- Live coverage of the Special Olympics "passing of the torch" on the way to Los Angeles and the activities afterwards.
- Video and report on a summer pool party activity involving the city of Palm Springs and a half-dozen hotels. Supplementary video and report on a hotel not part of the Splash Party this year due to noise complaints including interview with hotel owner.
- Video of former year biker gathering in Palm Springs plus two interviews with Cathedral City representatives and one resident about moving the gathering to that jurisdiction next year. Discussion of whether infrastructure could handle the potential for disruptive behaviour.
All of this was locally reported on by the station. There were no newspapers to copy, as all the reports were for things happening after the Saturday paper had been printed and circulated.
There were a couple of other items, and some stories of Southland interest from ABC-7 in LA and followups on the Louisiana shooting, the Iran treaty and a couple of other stories from network sources. All in all, for a small market a lot of video, most of it done locally by real reporters who wrote their own stories and did their own interviews with reasonably good questions, correct grammar and usage and pleasant delivery. Very little "talking heads" time, with the video portion made up mostly of news scene content done by station's own crew.
I might mention that this particular small market TV station generally scoops the newspaper in web coverage, and is very aggressive in sending breaking news to those who sign up for alerts.
This same station has equally competent 11 PM, early morning and mid-day reports. Sure, when there is a slow news day, there are more fluff and puff pieces, but that happens everywhere... including the print media which seems to fill on slow days with poorly written and totally un-proofread material when looking to prevent blank pages.
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Oscar Madison
Leading Participant
David, if you find your local news in Palm Springs a good use of your time, by all means keep watching.
Apparently we have different criteria for what qualifies as "reporting." I went to the website for your local stations to see the stories you mentioned (apparently one newscast is produced for two different stations).
- Live report on reopening of flood damaged I-10 at Desert Center. Reporter on scene, 60 miles from studios, interviewing construction crew doing rebuild and a police officer in charge managing reduced-lane traffic.
They probably got an announcement saying the road was open. That was covered in the lead-in. The piece itself was yet another MOTS (man on the street) segment with people complaining about how bad traffic was during construction. Dog bites man; traffic is always bad during construction.
- Interview in a Palm Desert location with the County Supervisor about when full repairs would be completed.
Politician getting himself on the tube.
- Interview at Chiriaco Summit (nearest gas and food) about how the closure had affected business.
Restaurant owner complaining about how bad business was when the road was closed. Of course it was.
- Report from Banning (40 miles away) on a court case involving an abduction and assault. Interview with prosecuter.
I couldn't find this one on the website but sounds like another politician getting himself on TV (and attempting to influence the jury pool). Typically, local stations have a pronounced pro-cop, pro-DA bias because that's who keeps feeding them (just like the bears in Yellowstone). In Canada, this would be illegal. The prosecutor would be sanctioned or disbarred and action could be taken against the station.
- Report from the scene of the newest wildfire, with interviews with local resident and fire official. Also included several shots of how smoke was seen "down in the Valley"
More MOTS plus stock footage.
- Sports director's live interview with a local who just won a world championship prize fight.
A cheap and easy get. I wonder if they will interview this guy when the results of brain damage become evident.
- Report on status of court case involving street racing with a fatality including station's own footage of the incident and of illegal street racing in same location.
A chance to fill time by recycling old, stock footage. Their own footage or somebody's smartphone footage?
- Puff piece on dog show with cute pets and brief interviews with pet owners and fanciers.
Right, puff piece. Canned footage and interviews?
- Extensive weather report including several full motion shots of the day's unusual weather (low temperatures for the season and rare winds and dust).
Send somebody out to take pictures of the weather. Yawn.
- Video as part of story on several day closure of a freeway access while construction of new ramps and interchanges are being done; status on whole job.
Handout from highway department plus some stock footage (likely from the highway department, too).
- Two video reports on Special Olympics, several teams for which are staying in the Valley and practicing.
- Live coverage of the Special Olympics "passing of the torch" on the way to Los Angeles and the activities afterwards.
- Video and report on a summer pool party activity involving the city of Palm Springs and a half-dozen hotels. Supplementary video and report on a hotel not part of the Splash Party this year due to noise complaints including interview with hotel owner.
Video press releases.
- Video of former year biker gathering in Palm Springs plus two interviews with Cathedral City representatives and one resident about moving the gathering to that jurisdiction next year. Discussion of whether infrastructure could handle the potential for disruptive behaviour.
Talking heads opinionating.
I see little, if any, "reporting" in any of this. Most of this is easy pictures and easy sound bites with no new or hard information. Nothing newspapers would bother with (beyond a sentence or two). I can't tell David whether you think this station is good or the newspaper is really bad. If you want a good paper, read the Times.
Funny thing: Some people here think people who stand behind a mic holder doing a live shot and jump and wave are wackos. But do it on the Price Is Right and you're cool and likely get to contestants' row. And people were encouraged to jump and wave during Letterman (and not called wackos). How is a live shot any different? It's all TV.
Apparently we have different criteria for what qualifies as "reporting." I went to the website for your local stations to see the stories you mentioned (apparently one newscast is produced for two different stations).
- Live report on reopening of flood damaged I-10 at Desert Center. Reporter on scene, 60 miles from studios, interviewing construction crew doing rebuild and a police officer in charge managing reduced-lane traffic.
They probably got an announcement saying the road was open. That was covered in the lead-in. The piece itself was yet another MOTS (man on the street) segment with people complaining about how bad traffic was during construction. Dog bites man; traffic is always bad during construction.
- Interview in a Palm Desert location with the County Supervisor about when full repairs would be completed.
Politician getting himself on the tube.
- Interview at Chiriaco Summit (nearest gas and food) about how the closure had affected business.
Restaurant owner complaining about how bad business was when the road was closed. Of course it was.
- Report from Banning (40 miles away) on a court case involving an abduction and assault. Interview with prosecuter.
I couldn't find this one on the website but sounds like another politician getting himself on TV (and attempting to influence the jury pool). Typically, local stations have a pronounced pro-cop, pro-DA bias because that's who keeps feeding them (just like the bears in Yellowstone). In Canada, this would be illegal. The prosecutor would be sanctioned or disbarred and action could be taken against the station.
- Report from the scene of the newest wildfire, with interviews with local resident and fire official. Also included several shots of how smoke was seen "down in the Valley"
More MOTS plus stock footage.
- Sports director's live interview with a local who just won a world championship prize fight.
A cheap and easy get. I wonder if they will interview this guy when the results of brain damage become evident.
- Report on status of court case involving street racing with a fatality including station's own footage of the incident and of illegal street racing in same location.
A chance to fill time by recycling old, stock footage. Their own footage or somebody's smartphone footage?
- Puff piece on dog show with cute pets and brief interviews with pet owners and fanciers.
Right, puff piece. Canned footage and interviews?
- Extensive weather report including several full motion shots of the day's unusual weather (low temperatures for the season and rare winds and dust).
Send somebody out to take pictures of the weather. Yawn.
- Video as part of story on several day closure of a freeway access while construction of new ramps and interchanges are being done; status on whole job.
Handout from highway department plus some stock footage (likely from the highway department, too).
- Two video reports on Special Olympics, several teams for which are staying in the Valley and practicing.
- Live coverage of the Special Olympics "passing of the torch" on the way to Los Angeles and the activities afterwards.
- Video and report on a summer pool party activity involving the city of Palm Springs and a half-dozen hotels. Supplementary video and report on a hotel not part of the Splash Party this year due to noise complaints including interview with hotel owner.
Video press releases.
- Video of former year biker gathering in Palm Springs plus two interviews with Cathedral City representatives and one resident about moving the gathering to that jurisdiction next year. Discussion of whether infrastructure could handle the potential for disruptive behaviour.
Talking heads opinionating.
I see little, if any, "reporting" in any of this. Most of this is easy pictures and easy sound bites with no new or hard information. Nothing newspapers would bother with (beyond a sentence or two). I can't tell David whether you think this station is good or the newspaper is really bad. If you want a good paper, read the Times.
Funny thing: Some people here think people who stand behind a mic holder doing a live shot and jump and wave are wackos. But do it on the Price Is Right and you're cool and likely get to contestants' row. And people were encouraged to jump and wave during Letterman (and not called wackos). How is a live shot any different? It's all TV.
The local news covers all the major things of importance in the metro area. For anything more specific, I can go to my local city council meetings or read the minutes online.
No, the two stations that are co-owned, the Channel 2 and the Channel 3 brands, are separate newscasts with separate anchors (news co-anchors, weathercaster / meteorologist and sports dork) and a lot of separate and different stories, particularly the investigative pieces (last week Channel 2 did an in depth series about the shrinking Salton Sea, including the effects of the lost of wildlife habitats, the impact of the drought on water levels and the prospects of a dust bowl in the eastern Valley, while Channel 3 did a series about the use of aquifer water by the area's 138 golf courses, including reports from a water conservationist in Sacramento as well as managers of the Water District and several golf courses. The report concluded that golf courses needed to change their landscaping and water usage or perish, bringing a recession on the Valley).
That's major market news coverage, and as good as that of any newspaper.
All your other conclusions are wrong. I'll just give a couple of rebuttals, but all of your assumptions can similarly be proven wrong:
The on-scene report was done under the less damage bridge, and showed close ups of how the excavations had been done, how boulders were placed as water deflectors, and then how over 1000 cubic yards of concrete were brought over 100 miles to do the repairs. This was followed by an interview with an engineer who discussed how the destroyed bridge would be demolished and replaced, with camera shots of how the bridge support columns would be redesigned this time.
The Police officer was the district commander, and she explained what kinds of delays to expect until the second bridge was replaced, including estimates for mornings, afternoons and weekends since traffic flows are very different at each time. Since alternate routes to the east add between 4 and 6 hours in time for a trip to Phoenix, this was valuable information.
The County Supervisor detailed the cost of the destroyed bridge replacement, including what would come from local, state and federal emergency funds and what might not be covered and would have to come from general county funds. The timetable for constructions start to finish was also given, letting us know how long the traffic delays might go on.
Chiriaco Summit is the only location for gas from the edge of the Palm Springs metro to Blythe, so the availability of services there is a critical issue for travelers. That's a nearly 70 mile piece of road with no other services since the facilities at Desert Center closed and vital to many travelers, particularly after the steep grades from sea level to about 3000 feet up from the Valley floor.
The interview was with with the defense attorney regarding a request for change in venue. It was balanced by a victim's family member interview. Your assumption is totally wrong.
The footage came from several viewer's videos of how the fire was seen to be approaching quite a few mountain homes. This was supplemented by views from the Coachella Valley floor of the spiral of smoke, followed by the station's chief meteorologist report on winds and air quality prospects.
He's a local hero and role model. OK, you don't like boxing. I can take it or leave it, but the kid is well spoken, made cogent observations about the referee's strange call, and emphasized the role of family and school in his life. To me, it was a very positive piece of journalism. Perhaps a blow to the chin to you is worse than shooting some bad h, but to me that is not the case.
The original footage was their own crew's shots of the destroyed cars, and the new footage showed the signage that had been put in place to try to discourage street racing. A "street cop" talked about increased patrols in the area on usual race nights which should discourage such practices.
The station's own reporter with her own dog... a rescue animal from the shelter she is spokesperson for... and video of some of the cuter or more original dogs. I know the venue, have been to that same show and thought the piece was upbeat and positive and it encouraged support of rescue centers as the whole show was in their benefit.
Not really stock footage. We just had record setting rainfall for July, record low temperatures and lots of road damage and flooding. During such times, we want to know if more is in stock, and the extent of the still-unrepaired storm sewer damage. As it was, the report was forecasting another haboob for this week with a potential for as much as a half inch of rain, which could be dangerous (we are a desert where my area gets about 3" of rain a year). At this time of year, when usual temperatures can easily hit 120, we have to know the weather to plan activities and schedules.
Actually, it was land and drone shots of the status of the construction by the station, with the current work highlighted by animated colored arrows and lines. Since that is my interchange, I found it very informative particularly since a street level view such as I get when I use the interchange does not show how the project is proceeding.
KESQ and its sister station are quite good for a market this size. Competent, coherent reporters, nice anchors, good graphics and imaging. Full coverage of everything that matters. The paper is also good, but has cut back in recent years due to the loss of classified and automotive to Craigslist and the loss of real estate to ZIllow and other real estate sites. They used to run 100 pages a week of just real estate, and now it is less than 20.
The LA TImes is an abominable paper with turgid writing, an attitude almost as big as the size of their loss in circulation and revenue, and dreadful neighborhood level coverage. I occasionally try to read it but give up in disgust and anger.
No, it is not... unless you are a hopeless cynic and died in the wool misanthrope. A writer for a paper writes and the writing is printed. The equivalent function in TV is to gather the facts and then deliver the information with a microphone and camera in verbal and pictorial fashion. A good TV reporter can make a story much more vivid with the use of pictures, newsmakers and on the spot images.
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So, you don't understand the difference between a prerecorded game or audience show which uses an audience warm-up and a live news standup? Oh that's right, they're both on TV, so the situations MUST be all the same.
True, street reporters find people walking into their shot annoying, but by your twisted comparison, in reality has zero similarity to someone shooting at or around a reporter, physically assaulting them, or even jumping into their shot screaming "F*** her in the p***y!", then posting the reporter's reaction on YouTube.
And no, it isn't a "funny thing". The fact you think it is, falls under the category of disturbing.
You got that right.
Oscar Madison
Leading Participant
I think you've put your finger on it. Pictures are for the illiterate. Pictures or words is the difference between The Times and the Daily News (which called itself "the picture newspaper" and used a camera as its logo). In contrast to what some have posted here, TV is not a visual medium. Silent movies are a visual medium. Photography is a visual medium. TV is an audio/visual medium.
I watched the pieces you mentioned which were still available on the website yesterday, and I completely dispute your descriptions. What amazed was how little actual - let alone useful - information was contained in those pieces. TV news is to content what cotton candy is to nutrition.
Have I insulted "professionals?" No way. Journalists are not "professionals." And people in TV news don't even qualify as "journalists." TV news is show biz for the marginally attractive and marginally talented. Mic holders are the lowest level of celebrity. They know it and that makes them so thin-skinned about people waving behind them.
The shooting mentioned in the original post had nothing to do with the mic holder in the video (or any other TV news person). But in typical TV news fashion, they want to make it all about themselves.
When I see TV news people stop intrudding on people in the worst moments of their lives with rude, personal and impertinent questions, and ceasing gratuitous invasions of the privacy of people who are not public figures, then I will start of having some sympathy for talent having their live shots disrupted by passersby.
Let's not forget all those polls that show what low regard in which the public holds news media and the people in it. But I doubt people like some here have ever done any soul searching to wonder why this is. No, just dismiss them as wackos. Much easier and more satisfying.
Oscar,
You just won yourself a seven day suspension.
You just won yourself a seven day suspension.
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