michael hagerty
Walk of Fame Participant
In L.A. for a few days and listening to Saul Levine's new Adult Standards HD format, which is really a hybrid of Standards and Jazz. Very cool stuff, and a nice use of a tertiary HD channel.
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Kkgo hd-3
- Thread starter michael hagerty
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Thomps2525
Guest
In December 2013, Saul Levine's Mount Wilson FM Broadcasters purchased KNRY in Monterey. The station has a studio on Cannery Row. KNRY. Cannery. Get it? Until March 30, KNRY was a simulcast of classical KMZT. Now KNRY and KKGO-HD3, which was formerly country oldies, carry the syndicated "Unforgettables" adult standards format. That should please the fifteen people who own an HD radio.
http://www.knry1240.com/
http://www.knry1240.com/
michael hagerty
Walk of Fame Participant
Well, it certainly pleased me, Steve. And 23 million people own HD radios. That number is climbing fairly rapidly, since more and more new cars are equipped with HD (one is sold every 4.5 seconds). That's how I listened.
For niche formats that simply can't make a business case for their own main-signal commercial success, an HD-2 or HD-3 is a terrific alternative to the format simply not airing anywhere.
michael hagerty
Walk of Fame Participant
Syndicated by whom, Steve? I can't find a thing about it (unusual for a syndicator), and the music selection and mix sounds for all the world like it came from the KKJZ library. Saul had been running it on KKJZ HD-3 until last month. Are you sure it's not a homebrew?
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K.M. Richards
Guest
Steve may be channeling the Toby Arnold format of the same name from the 1980s ...
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Thomps2525
Guest
From the KKGO entry on Wikipedia: "Unforgettable is classified as syndicated and is heard in Monterey, CA on KNRY as well."
From the KNRY entry on Wikipedia: "On March 30, 2015 KNRY changed their format from a simulcast of classical-formatted KMZT-FM to adult standards, branded as Unforgettable 1240. The syndication was also heard on KKGO in Los Angeles on their HD 3 sub channel."
From a post by Ben Ditzel on RadioInsight.com: "KKGO’s HD 3 signal has flipped from Oldies Country to the new Unforgettable format (same syndication as KNRY in Monterey, CA)."
Saul Levine owns both those stations and the Unforgettable format is not called a "simulcast." It's referred to as "syndicated." That, to me, says that the format is heard on other stations. Is it? And if it isn't, then how can it be called "syndicated"? We all know that nothing on Wikipedia is ever wrong, don't we?
From the KNRY entry on Wikipedia: "On March 30, 2015 KNRY changed their format from a simulcast of classical-formatted KMZT-FM to adult standards, branded as Unforgettable 1240. The syndication was also heard on KKGO in Los Angeles on their HD 3 sub channel."
From a post by Ben Ditzel on RadioInsight.com: "KKGO’s HD 3 signal has flipped from Oldies Country to the new Unforgettable format (same syndication as KNRY in Monterey, CA)."
Saul Levine owns both those stations and the Unforgettable format is not called a "simulcast." It's referred to as "syndicated." That, to me, says that the format is heard on other stations. Is it? And if it isn't, then how can it be called "syndicated"? We all know that nothing on Wikipedia is ever wrong, don't we?
To me a syndicated show is one that is run on multiple stations of multiple owners. This is just the same format running independently on two stations of the same owner. It's a name, not a syndicated format.
"Amp" is a name. It is on a number of CBS stations, with similar music but different jocks and slightly different formatics. It is not on non-CBS stations. It's a name, not a syndicated format.
I will be the contrarian here. The last two cars I got came with the HD radio feature turned off. I asked about that and the dealer said that listeners in the know will turn it on, but others tend to think something is wrong with their radio when the HD-2 and beyond have frequent dropouts, and they take the car in for service or complain about it.
Agreed. It is a nice place to experiment, but most radio companies don't have any money budgeted for HD formats so many offerings are just computers running a playlist over and over and...
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Thomps2525
Guest
K.M., I just realized something: When I make the same post on two different threads or on two different radio discussion sites, I'm actually in syndication! 
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K.M. Richards
Guest
I'll be sure to tell Saul that when I see him.K.M., I just realized something: When I make the same post on two different threads or on two different radio discussion sites, I'm actually in syndication!
Meanwhile, I agree that "syndication" means running on stations with different owners. Drake-Chenault's Contempo 300 was a syndicated format. American Top 40 was a syndicated weekly program. Rush Limbaugh is a syndicated daily program.
No, Wikipedia is never wrong. Pigs also fly, the Pope is a Presbyterian, and the sky is chartreuse.
Mediafrog+
Walk of Fame Participant
I'm quite sure the number of HD radios in LA is in the hundreds of thousands, if not passing a million. Lots of cars.
Of course if you're too stupid to figure out how those HD radios work...
Mediafrog+
Walk of Fame Participant
A problem for those unfamiliar with HD is there are three or four seconds of silence before the signal decodes when tuning HD2/3/4. Anyone not familiar with that quirk might tune away too quickly. Some sort of awareness campaign might help.
The same argument could be made for many analog FM music stations...
Except in LA in the summer months when it has a sort of purple haze. Maybe someone could name a song after our polluted sky...
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Thomps2525
Guest
David, do you want me to complain that nobody has played the Dion version of that song since 1969? It was to a different tune and peaked at #63 but I'd love to hear it again.
BusinessDictionary.com defines syndication as "Supply of content (articles, cartoons, stories, etc.) or information (business and economic data, news stories, etc.) on a subscription basis to marketers or media (periodicals, radio and television, websites)." Good ol' Wikipedia defines it as "the sale of the right to broadcast television and radio programs by multiple television and radio stations, without going through a broadcast network." So KNRY and KKGO HD3 are not carrying syndicated programming. They're simulcasting.
Speaking of Wikipedia, I'm going to go there and add the information that pigs can fly and the sky is chartreuse and I'll include a link to this thread, citing K.M. Richards as the source.
BusinessDictionary.com defines syndication as "Supply of content (articles, cartoons, stories, etc.) or information (business and economic data, news stories, etc.) on a subscription basis to marketers or media (periodicals, radio and television, websites)." Good ol' Wikipedia defines it as "the sale of the right to broadcast television and radio programs by multiple television and radio stations, without going through a broadcast network." So KNRY and KKGO HD3 are not carrying syndicated programming. They're simulcasting.
Speaking of Wikipedia, I'm going to go there and add the information that pigs can fly and the sky is chartreuse and I'll include a link to this thread, citing K.M. Richards as the source.
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K.M. Richards
Guest
Speaking of Wikipedia, I'm going to go there and add the information that pigs can fly and the sky is chartreuse and I'll include a link to this thread, citing K.M. Richards as the source.
That should get you banned for life from editing there, if anything could.
david
Leading Participant
HD - it could be good if only....
So true. Not only is there the multi-second delay Mediafrog references, but the HD side channels are only allowed to put out power at about 10% of the main channel so they cut in and out, which makes for a less optimal listening experience. That said, there are certainly some worthy HD channels of note in LA - Saul Levine programs classical and standards on KKGO HD2 and HD3, and yet another standards station (jazz vocals) on KKJZ HD2. KROQ2 is a wonderful re-creation of KROQ from its 80s legacy, KRTH-HD2 is home to its former playlist. I wish there was a AAA format offered on HD in LA. The closest is The Current on KPCC HD2, but they do not have an excellent signal here in Long Beach, so 89.3 HD2 does not come in anywhere near consistent enough here to endure listening to it.
So true. Not only is there the multi-second delay Mediafrog references, but the HD side channels are only allowed to put out power at about 10% of the main channel so they cut in and out, which makes for a less optimal listening experience. That said, there are certainly some worthy HD channels of note in LA - Saul Levine programs classical and standards on KKGO HD2 and HD3, and yet another standards station (jazz vocals) on KKJZ HD2. KROQ2 is a wonderful re-creation of KROQ from its 80s legacy, KRTH-HD2 is home to its former playlist. I wish there was a AAA format offered on HD in LA. The closest is The Current on KPCC HD2, but they do not have an excellent signal here in Long Beach, so 89.3 HD2 does not come in anywhere near consistent enough here to endure listening to it.
landtuna
Walk of Fame Participant
I notice this thread is posted in the L.A. forum but for readers in other markets it is important to understand that the problems associated with HD radio are not universal. Here is Phoenix I get reception as good as with analog FM in my car and have had virtually zero dropouts (exception: the middle of the I-10 tunnel) in the past two years. I also do not seem to have that multi-second delay that others complain about when tuning into an HD signal. My Lexicon radio brings up the HD signal virtually immediately after I switch from analog FM to an HD sub.
Being somewhat familiar with El A I have to think that the majority of problems with drop-outs and reception problems there are caused by (1) the physical size of the metro area and (2) the various hills and valleys. Here in Phoenix we have South Mountain transmitter site which is something like 800 feet above the valley floor and the floor is pretty flat. There are some dead spots north of Central Phoenix but the rest of the Valley is pretty much unobstructed. Aside from the previously mentioned tunnel (which also kills analog FM) there are not many tall buildings (although I don't travel through downtown enough to tell) to cause problems. I can travel southeast towards Tucson (relatively flat) for almost 100 miles before the analog FM drops out and just a few minutes earlier before HD drops. Going north towards Flagstaff the range is only about half that since it gets pretty hilly right after leaving the Phoenix city limits.
My car is a Hyundai Genesis which has an interior FM antenna. I assume coverage would be marginally better with an external whip.
Being somewhat familiar with El A I have to think that the majority of problems with drop-outs and reception problems there are caused by (1) the physical size of the metro area and (2) the various hills and valleys. Here in Phoenix we have South Mountain transmitter site which is something like 800 feet above the valley floor and the floor is pretty flat. There are some dead spots north of Central Phoenix but the rest of the Valley is pretty much unobstructed. Aside from the previously mentioned tunnel (which also kills analog FM) there are not many tall buildings (although I don't travel through downtown enough to tell) to cause problems. I can travel southeast towards Tucson (relatively flat) for almost 100 miles before the analog FM drops out and just a few minutes earlier before HD drops. Going north towards Flagstaff the range is only about half that since it gets pretty hilly right after leaving the Phoenix city limits.
My car is a Hyundai Genesis which has an interior FM antenna. I assume coverage would be marginally better with an external whip.
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HD was originally limited to 1% of analog carrier power. A more recent 2010 ruling ( http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/201...digital-fm-radio-stations-effective-may-10th/ ) allows 4% with no paperwork and up to 10% if it can be proven that no interference to adjacent channels will occur.
In the more crowded parts of the country, going beyond 4% is not likely.
Superpowered "grandfathered" stations have special limitations.
Keep in mind that digital and analog power are not directly comparable.
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Thomps2525
Guest
In his syndicated radio column today, Richard Wagoner says that Unforgettable 105.1 HD3 will begin online streaming soon. Oh boy, we'll be able to hear Sinatra and Como and Dean and Tony and Ella and Sarah and all the hundreds of other artists who no longer get played on AM and FM.
michael hagerty
Walk of Fame Participant
Good! I've been in withdrawals since leaving L.A. on Wednesday. The great thing about the format is that it's not just the old stuff. It's a blend of those heritage artists with contemporary ones like Diana Krall and Michael Buble and there's a strong jazz feel to it. Practically zero schmaltz.
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