I'm not from the Bay Area, and I found it curious to read that only a few radio stations take advantage of the Sutro Tower. KOIT 96.5 seems to provide better coverage than any other station located in the city, so it makes me wonder why other stations don't bother trying to do the same (given that the class would be the same).
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Why are more radio stations not using the Sutro Tower?
- Thread starter fordranger797
- Start date
You answered your own question - almost. The class is the same, but the grandfathered status is not. Almost all of San Francisco's major FM's were built before Sutro tower, and before the FCC limited FM power to 50,000 watts at 500 feet or equivalent. Sutro is something like 1200 feet above average terrain, so power has to cut back significantly at that height. If you move a grandfathered high-power transmitter your new coverage area can not exceed your previous coverage in any direction. Most of the established high-power stations are on Mt. Beacon above Sausalito or on San Bruno Mtn. San Bruno stations get pretty good coverage down to San Jose, and there are some pretty high-powered stations there - led by KQED with 115,000 watts. If they moved North to Sutro the power levels go down fast, and they would lose that San Jose signal.
Similarly, a move from Mt. Beacon to Sutro also means a decrease in power. I can't find documentation for sure on this, but I heard that's what happened many years ago to 98.9. They have only 6000 watts or something like that because they lost most of their grandfathered status. The compromised signals combined with the cost of building a new transmitter plant and (I imagine) the high cost of site rent on Sutro probably makes it impractical for stations to move there.
Dave B.
Thanks for your insight, Dave. From your own personal experience, do you notice that stations like KFOG and KOIT sound better in San Francisco proper due to the LOS compared to other stations on San Bruno? I noticed that I was beginning to lose KFOG around Half Moon Bay last time I was in the Bay Area heading south.
The Sutro FMs have a bit of an overshoot problem in the areas of SF right around the tower. This is because the beam tilt they would need would create potentially excessive radiation to areas very close to the tower itself. But this affects only perhaps a mile to a mile and a half around with any severity... but it is a very densely populated few square miles.
The real issue is that the Beacon signals are not good in San Jose, and Santa Clara County is part of the SF radio market (it is also a separately broken out embedded market, too). The San Bruno signals do a bit better in San José, but they are still right at the cutoff for usable indoor reception.
Besides the issues Dave mentioned, we also have spacing issues where most if not all of the Beacon signals could not move any distance South without having overlap with the very tightly packed band going towards Salinas Monterey and other areas south and SE of SF.
Reminds me of the situation in NYC with the old World Trade Center. IIRC only two FMs were up there: 103.5 and 93.1. None of the others wanted to give up that power. Not to mention pay the huge rent. 103.5 had the additional problem that it had to protect 103.3 in Princeton NJ. So now that the Freedom Tower is up, with a new broadcast antenna, it's unlikely many FMs will go there.
Where is KISQ's and KMVQ's Transmitter?
Thanks for the info, David. I'm hoping to have the opportunity to move down to the bay area sometime in the next year, so hopefully i'll be able to see some of what you are talking about for myself. Every region and city presents its own set of challenges.
The situation of moving a "grandfathered" station is better than it used to be. You used to not be able to make a change without losing "grandfathered" status.
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
The Internet is your friend, Mario.
Via the FCC website (FM Query, off the Media Bureau page) I looked up both stations' facilities and I am including the links from those pages which plot the transmitter coordinates on a Bing map ...
KISQ is on Beacon:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?mapurl=ht....1&contour=54&city=SAN_FRANCISCO&state=CA.kml
KMVQ is on San Bruno:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?mapurl=ht....7&contour=54&city=SAN_FRANCISCO&state=CA.kml
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
However, I went and looked up a station earlier in the week on the FFC web page and went to map it with their maps (Bing). The map was AT LEAST five years out of date. I could tell by buildings and streets. About as good as Apple maps
Well then, try mapping the coordinates from the FCC website yourself. You will find that KISQ is on Beacon and KMVQ is on San Bruno.
However, I went and looked up a station earlier in the week on the FFC web page and went to map it with their maps (Bing). The map was AT LEAST five years out of date. I could tell by buildings and streets. About as good as Apple maps
The FCC FM Query page gives a variety of data for each station.
It is at http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/fm-query-broadcast-station-search
One of the resources is the ability to map each station and see the protected contour. While landmarks on the maps may change and roads may be added or modified, mountains and terrain generally are not mobile; the FCC maps quite precisely indicate the location of every licensed site in the US.
Thanks K.M
Sometime KISQ in West Sacramento sound better the KMVQ on my Grundig
And both stations are out of the fringe area
Sometime KISQ in West Sacramento sound better the KMVQ on my Grundig
And both stations are out of the fringe area
I've got one more question I want to throw out to you guys who know the SFO market:
Is there any chance that there will be a conventional classic rock or classic hits station targeting San Francisco proper in the near future? I suppose KSAN is classic rock, but I think it would also be appropriate to have some sort of classic hits radio station targeting SF as well now that KFOX cannot be heard in town.
Is there any chance that there will be a conventional classic rock or classic hits station targeting San Francisco proper in the near future? I suppose KSAN is classic rock, but I think it would also be appropriate to have some sort of classic hits radio station targeting SF as well now that KFOX cannot be heard in town.
It looks like San Francisco has a Classic Hits station in KOSF 103.7. Their playlist certainly looks like it.
Thanks for sharing! I can't believe I missed that! I guess I was paying too much attention to the fact that SF now has a "Nash FM"...
Actually, most of SF does not have a Nash FM. The station is a South Bay signal only, and barely covers perhaps 1/3 of the market.
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't there used to be a country music station in San Francisco proper that flipped a year or so ago? I think I ran across that tidbit of info on this exact forum a long time ago.
95.7 was "The Wolf" before switching to Country.
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