New York Post Article

I posted this article in Business of Radio, but it's appropriate here as well:

http://nypost.com/2015/03/19/more-streaming-siriusxm-may-mean-the-demise-of-car-radios/

I find it interesting to read the comments about this at the dentist's board. They believe the article, and are convinced that radio companies are to blame for not investing in programming.

My question to them is: What are you talking about? Do you actually listen to any stations in NYC? They all feature local talent, they all invest in on-air product, particularly the major owners like CBS, Clear Channel, Emmis, and Cumulus, and they're all doing pretty well in attracting audiences. None of them have anything to fear from Sirius. And as far as investing in programming, name one streaming service that does anything more than an in-dash CD player. Name one. Is there a single streaming service that could compete against WFAN or WINS? No.

There other complaint is local talent should be allowed to talk. Have any of them listened to any of the morning drive shows? Lots of local talent, talking about lots of local things. They play maybe 6 songs an hour. That's fine for morning drive. But in a PPM market, too much talk outside morning drive is death for the ratings. That's why they don't do it. Not because of radio company investment. Too much talk means listeners tune out. That translates to bad radio.

What I'm reading on that other board is a bunch of lies, with a group of ditto-heads agreeing with those lies.

I must be the lone wolf out. When it's FUNNY and GOOD talk.. I prefer it over music.

Especially when the same old play lists and commercials play over and over and over and over again. The talk is the only thing to keep one coming back and get invested in the station.
As soon as PLJ got rid of rocky allen, and put race on in the afternoons, where he comes on maybe once an hour for 2 minutes,I lost interest immediately.

Same goes for any short form show with a break that lasts less than 2 minutes. it's just not worth bothering with. online services do so much better a job with fresher more interesting music choices than radio does.
the only thing that even keeps the radio on for me is the talk.

Shredder said:

I must be the lone wolf out.

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You are. As strange as it may seem, people tend to tune in to music stations for music. That's what they want and expect.

But there are lots of live & local on-air folks who talk and talk all the time.

Been reading some of those replies on the other board. and I also agree with one of the other points made. The commercials ALSO need to be interesting to keep people tuned in for a laugh during breaks. there was a period of time from 1995-2000 that had great commercial spots, some of which I still remember to this day. but, of course once internet radio took over, people got lazy, the ban for pro spots came into effect and thus came in the terror of depressing PSA's and insurance spots. and that whole aspect of it got super annoying too.. especially if you listen live. and spots on over the air arn't much better..... a depressing smoking commercial comes to mind at the moment.....as well as tons of doctor ads....

If it didn't eat up my data, I'd stream something like GotRadio over my PC and listen to big band 40s on the way to work just for something different.


THe other thing is PD's who don't loosen things up. the joking 'battle' between scott and Jim Ryan is a good example of this. Scott knows it won't hurt to flush the format once in a while, but Jim Ryan seems to like to play the same 50 songs over and over again and god forbid you deviate from the list ;o)

Shredder said:

Jim Ryan seems to like to play the same 50 songs over and over again and god forbid you deviate from the list ;o)

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And what number is WCBS-FM in the Top 10? It's been a long time since Scott was at the #2 station in NYC. If I was him, the only thing I'd say to Jim Ryan is "Thank you."

You've heard the phrase: If it ain't broke? He does it because it works. That's why he does it. The same could be said about every other programmer in the Top 10.

If you want Big Band, they sometimes play them on WKCR and WBGO.

TheBigA said:

I posted this article in Business of Radio, but it's appropriate here as well:
There other complaint is local talent should be allowed to talk. Have any of them listened to any of the morning drive shows? Lots of local talent, talking about lots of local things. They play maybe 6 songs an hour. That's fine for morning drive. But in a PPM market, too much talk outside morning drive is death for the ratings. That's why they don't do it. Not because of radio company investment. Too much talk means listeners tune out. That translates to bad radio.

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Well ... yeah ...

But a big part of the problem, IMO, isn't too much talk but too many voices. Radio is supposed to be a "personal" medium, creating the perception the the host is talking to a single individual, not to "the audience." That concept seemed to vanish long ago. The morning drive shows to which you refer are like eavesdropping on a party that you're not a part of. And I'd argue that's not, "Fine [even] for morning drive."

The hosts people once really loved -- Dan Ingram, Harry Harrison, Scott Muni, Alison Steele, Pete Fornatale, etc. etc. -- flew solo. They delivered real information -- the weather and traffic -- even news. They told you about products and retailers through live commercial reads -- not live-on-tape messages with all the breaths removed. And they tailored the amount of talking based on what they had to say. They injected inject personality into the information and made it fun -- they didn't just voice wrap-arounds for a bunch of disparate elements.

I know someone will reply, "Oh, so you think eliminating Metro Traffic or whatever will fix everything? No, but it could certainly be a step in the right direction.

wadio said:

But a big part of the problem, IMO, isn't too much talk but too many voices. Radio is supposed to be a "personal" medium, creating the perception the the host is talking to a single individual, not to "the audience."

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I think it's a function of time of day and format. Sure there are "morning zoos," and there have been for over 25 years. The cast approach to radio is nothing new. But it's mainly isolated in the mornings. The critics on the dentist board were complaining there's no live & local radio at all. What are they talking about? Other people complain that outside of morning, it's all solo hosts with not a lot of talk. As I said, that's because of PPM. Dan Ingram wasn't one for long stories. His gift was a few well placed words, usually in a character voice, usually over the intro of a song. That was it. You want personal radio? Listen to WLTW 7 to midnight.

There is one poster over there whose posts I always enjoy -- I guess because I generally agree with him. ;-)

Here are a couple of excerpts from a long post he wrote about this subject:

When we talk about demise, we don't usually mean something completely disappearing. We talk about it losing marketshare to the point where no one really cares about it anymore - where it's not central to the culture. People do still listen to the radio, but already, it's irrelevant to the culture.

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Radio could save itself if it actually was live and local with content to match. A live voice in a local studio is not enough. You have to permit the personality to actually do something that reinforces the notion that they're live and local. If they never talk about what's going on TODAY wherever they are, then it doesn't matter that they're live and local. If all they do is read liner cards and they're forced to play the same music that's played across the country, then it doesn't matter that they're live and local.

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I'd say that's correct.

wadio said:

There is one poster over there whose posts I always enjoy -- I guess because I generally agree with him. ;-)

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I read that, and once again, does he actually LISTEN? Almost every station in NYC is fully live & local, with hosts who talk about what's going on today, and the only station that uses liner cards just happens to be the #1 station in NYC!!! Losing market share? They've lost 2% in ten years, even with all of the streaming choices and Sirius. 92% of the country listens to OTA radio. What is he talking about? That's not irrelevant. As for the music, I'd say if they play the hits, and people tune in, then it doesn't matter if they're the same songs being played across the country. No one cares. They just care about what they hear in NYC. And obviously it's working!! If it works, you stick with it, regardless of what some guy thinks on a message board. A lot of these complainers are older white men who don't actually listen to the radio, because the music isn't their taste, and the hosts are all half their age. So because they don't listen, it doesn't exist. But it's there, and anyone with a radio and a set of ears knows it.

wadio said:

There is one poster over there whose posts I always enjoy -- I guess because I generally agree with him. ;-)

Here are a couple of excerpts from a long post he wrote about this subject:





I'd say that's correct.

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and to me, it's not just that.. maybe this is the radio geek in me, but I feel like you have to have something special to stand out among the masses. Look at wolfman jack.....got so famous he had songs written about him. those days where a DJ would run the station like that are probably long gone now.....but it would be nice to see someone who put a little effort into making themselves stand out and attract an audience with a show product again.

just reading weather notes or such doesn't cut it in the content world of today.

but then again, to the average radio listener, they probably don't even care about that stuff until someone actually does it, they get hooked, and then they realize what radio can be as an entertainment medium.

Shredder said:

... but then again, to the average radio listener, they probably don't even care about that stuff until someone actually does it, they get hooked, and then they realize what radio can be as an entertainment medium.

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Exactly. Looking at the current numbers and programming accordingly will preserve the status quo at best. Research is a great predictor of the past. ;-) It doesn't show you what could be.

Shredder said:

just reading weather notes or such doesn't cut it in the content world of today.

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Depends on if you want to know the weather. For some people, that might be the ONLY thing they care about. But once again, it depends on the station, the format, and the time of day. For every example someone brings up, I can point to something else. That's what happens with 50 or so radio stations. The thing about the Wolfman is he didn't really get famous until he did TV. Before that, he was mainly a local guy in southern California. Then he did TV with Midnight Special in 1972, appeared in American Graffiti in 1973, got syndicated, and then Guess Who had Clap For The Wolfman in 1974. But the complainers don't like syndicated DJs. They want live & local. As a DJ, you don't get famous until you're national. And as famous as The Wolfman was, he wasn't really a hit in NYC. He did nights at WNBC, and only lasted a year.

wadio said:

Exactly. Looking at the current numbers and programming accordingly will preserve the status quo at best. Research is a great predictor of the past. ;-) It doesn't show you what could be.

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Depends. Look at all the changes WOR has made for their morning show. New Yorkers WANT status quo. They hate change. Look at how many people complained about WCBS when it went to Jack. No one succeeds in New York by being a pioneer. What research said that Cumulus should launch a country station in NYC? Look at how it's doing. And they hired some of the biggest names in the format. It didn't matter.

TheBigA said:

Depends on if you want to know the weather. For some people, that might be the ONLY thing they care about. But once again, it depends on the station, the format, and the time of day. For every example someone brings up, I can point to something else. That's what happens with 50 or so radio stations. The thing about the Wolfman is he didn't really get famous until he did TV. Before that, he was mainly a local guy in southern California. Then he did TV with Midnight Special in 1972, appeared in American Graffiti in 1973, got syndicated, and then Guess Who had Clap For The Wolfman in 1974. But the complainers don't like syndicated DJs. They want live & local. As a DJ, you don't get famous until you're national. And as famous as The Wolfman was, he wasn't really a hit in NYC. He did nights at WNBC, and only lasted a year.

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Perhaps, but you all have to start SOMEWHERE.

as for weather....that's why we have different stations.... for a station like say, lite, where it's just left on in the office all day as background noise, having a guy like Race Taylor on or Joe Causi would be perfectly fine. you're not really paying attention to the station much anyway, and when you do, it's like 'oh yeah, big snow storm tomorrow' and go back to doing what you're doing.

But if all stations where like that? it would present a pretty boring landscape to anyone, let alone today's youth where podcasts are king and you get an hour and a half long of 'content'...be it good or bad.. but that keeps you coming back for more.. .wondering what's going to happen next.


For shows like Big joe Henry, at least he tries to brand himself a little as a local guy and has the gimmick of corny jokes, and super familiar sound bytes like the chime time. he's got a built in audience now for a decade or so, and found something that works, and can bring in the next generation, because their parents grew up listening to it. so long as they cut b ack on the over sponsorship of the show that's been happening, they should be able to grandfather hosts into it as the generations go on...

Although I agree, listeners hate change. But most of the time it's Change brought on when something is WORKING. You're jack/CBS FM comment fits that perfectly. Although I kind of liked the jack format, I DIDN'T like it enough to loose the greatness that was CBS FM. you brought change to an area that didn't really need it, if only because some investor or executive wanted to try and go younger......and it backfired on them. They are trying to undo that damage, but now with songs that could be playing on any other radio station across the country, never mind the city, it all sounds the same. The only thing I listen to on there IS the big show, because they have actual CONTENT that keeps bringing me back. I can hear the same old songs anywhere, or on my ipod without the annoying commercials on it.

As for Nash, women love that station, if my sister and her friends are any indication. they are building an audience..it just doesn't happen over night. if you pull the plug too early and say it doesn't work, you'll never know if it could have taken off......pulling the plug after the same results in say, ten years or so would be a different story...

Shredder said:

They are trying to undo that damage, but now with songs that could be playing on any other radio station across the country, never mind the city, it all sounds the same.

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It's really simple: People listen to classic stations because they like familiar favorites. That's why they listen. If they really want to hear different songs, they can listen to Power or Z100. They'll hear lots of new things. But they probably won't like it.

I track playlists of all the CBS-owned classic hits stations, and they're all different. WOGL in Philly is playing more old songs than WCBS. KRTH in LA plays less old stuff, and more California-based artists. So they're all very different. And they're programming with the idea that if you want a different mix of oldies, you just tune in a different city on their Radio.com app. They know listeners have that ability.

wadio said:

There is one poster over there whose posts I always enjoy -- I guess because I generally agree with him. ;-)

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Do you agree with THIS? This was also in the post you quoted above.

"Radio's latest demand is for the government to essentially permit payola. Radio doesn't want to identify when they're getting paid to promote a particular song or act."

That is absolute crap. First, it's not a "demand." It doesn't change the payola laws one bit, and radio employees would still be responsible for signing payola statements. The ONLY thing it does is move the identification from on-air to on-line, which is exactly what the FCC has already ordered in terms of political advertising and other listener notification. They would continue to identify all sources of record label money, and in fact, it would be available at all times, and wouldn't actually require LISTENING to the station, which radio watchdogs generally don't do. The view this poster is stating is coming from the Future of Music Coalition, a subsidiary of the RIAA. If the RIAA is concerned about payola, all they have to do is keep their money to themselves. But what FMC wants to do is force radio stations to play unpopular music, to create a revenue stream for artists who normally wouldn't get airplay. Getting the music industry involved in airplay decisions is a bad idea. It's why payola laws were created in the first place.

landtuna said:

As you said in another post, Noo Yawk is a very unique market and doesn't accept change readily.

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The rest of the story is the Wolfman was competing against Cousin Brucie on WABC. Guess who replaced the Wolf at WNBC. So yes, New Yorkers love the status quo. That's why Imus is still on WABC.