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The Triple A Format "Adult Album Alternative"

A

atrainradio

Guest
Been doing some reading on it. It appears that stations like WRNR 103.1, and a multitude of college stations are the majority of stations running what has been nicknamed the "College Format". But, would a full time full power station that runs this format work in philly?
 
Yes

It is successful in San Fran (KFOG), Chicago (WXRT) and many other cities. It's a nice change of pace listen in my personal opinion.
 
If it's already being done in the market, as it is with WXPM, then there's no real motivation to do the same format with commercials. The audience tends to dislike commercials.
 
Unregistered said:
It is successful in San Fran (KFOG), Chicago (WXRT) and many other cities. It's a nice change of pace listen in my personal opinion.
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The stations you mention are ultra-heritage operations, in-format for a very long time. Look around the larger markets and check how many successful newer AAA stations there are... meaning ones launched since the year 2000.

There is a reason for this: low ratings and lower billing and fairly old demographics.

Look at WRNR, the OP's reference. It gets an average of around a 0.4 share and is ranked between 35th and 40th in the market.
 
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DavidEduardo said:

There is a reason for this: low ratings and lower billing and fairly old demographics.
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In addition to that, I will add my own opinion.... Many AAA stations these days in 2015 are mixing in some more alt rock music suitable enough to be aired in order to appeal to a younger demographic. One of the reasons for the low ratings, again in my opinion, is that many rock music fans have abandoned broadcast radio and find other platforms and sources to get their music fix. I believe this is partly due to the dumbing down of anything beyond the mediocracy commonly heard on most other radio music formats.
 
SuperRadioFan said:
I believe this is partly due to the dumbing down of anything beyond the mediocracy commonly heard on most other radio music formats.
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Or perhaps it's the fact that rock music has splintered into so many sub-genres with so many mini-fan groups that none of them can attract a big enough audience to interest advertisers.

More than any other genre of music, alternative rock is one that is best heard on individual music devices. That way you can program just the songs and artists you want, and not have to sit through everyone else's favorites. That's not as big a problem in other genres.
 
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SuperRadioFan said:
In addition to that, I will add my own opinion.... Many AAA stations these days in 2015 are mixing in some more alt rock music suitable enough to be aired in order to appeal to a younger demographic. One of the reasons for the low ratings, again in my opinion, is that many rock music fans have abandoned broadcast radio and find other platforms and sources to get their music fix. I believe this is partly due to the dumbing down of anything beyond the mediocracy commonly heard on most other radio music formats.
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That is likely part of the issue, but there may be a causal effect that encouraged listeners to go to personal music collections or new media sources.

While I don't have a great deal of experience with AAA except having helped put an AAA station out of its misery, I have been at a couple of music tests for Alternative rock listeners. All were primary listeners to a local alternative station. But each of them only loved about a third of the library. Any group had their favorites, plus songs they tolerated plus just as many they hated. But the hated songs for one group were the favorites of another.

As BigA says, this is a format that is perfect for new media as the music has fragmented so much that an OTA station has a hard time finding consensus music library without also including a lot of disliked songs.
 
So, I wonder why we are talking about whether AAA would work, when it's clear it does, on non-commercial WXPN. Also on stations such as WFUV and WTMD in nearby markets. And if you can listen to any of those stations in your car or on your clock radio, you're a lucky AAA listener.

Is this thread lamenting that there are no more WXRTs, KFOGs, or KPRIs, that AAA is only successful in limited markets on commercial radio?

If you're really a fan, why does it matter whether it's on commercial radio? That it exists at all is key. Formats like traditional jazz, standards, and classical are contracting all the time, disappearing slowly from even the left side of the dial in many markets.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Any group had their favorites, plus songs they tolerated plus just as many they hated. But the hated songs for one group were the favorites of another.
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To me, the most fascinating part about studying fans of this genre is the low tolerance it has for songs outside their favorites. No other format or genre has this problem, or experiences it to this extreme. As I've said here before, the benefits of this format don't make up for the negatives. It's easier to simply do something else.
 
TheBigA said:
To me, the most fascinating part about studying fans of this genre is the low tolerance it has for songs outside their favorites. No other format or genre has this problem, or experiences it to this extreme. As I've said here before, the benefits of this format don't make up for the negatives. It's easier to simply do something else.
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And yet we have KFOG and KINK and The list is getting shorter, isn't it?
 
semoochie said:
And yet we have KFOG and KINK and The list is getting shorter, isn't it?
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Absolutely...as noted, those are heritage stations in very young & unique markets.

The question in the OP was could it work in Philadelphia, and my view, given the competition in the market now, is no.
 
Unregistered said:
So, I wonder why we are talking about whether AAA would work, when it's clear it does, on non-commercial WXPN. Also on stations such as WFUV and WTMD in nearby markets. And if you can listen to any of those stations in your car or on your clock radio, you're a lucky AAA listener.
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WXPN averages around a 1.1 share and is ranked in the vicinity of 20th in Philadelphia. Were that a commercial station, it would not have enough listenership to sustain significant billings.

WDUV is around a 0.7 share and ranked 29th based on the last 3 months of last year. Similarly not a viable general market audience level. WTMD averaged 24th in Baltimore, and had a rather unusual situation of being 30th in women and 15th in men, indicating a rather distinctive programming difference.

Is this thread lamenting that there are no more WXRTs, KFOGs, or KPRIs, that AAA is only successful in limited markets on commercial radio?
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I think the conclusion is that the format leaders are all decades old heritage stations where the audience is aging with the format. Attempts to start new AAA stations have not met with much success, the latest being KSWD in LA, which gradually migrated to a form of classic rock when the AAA format got no traction.

If you're really a fan, why does it matter whether it's on commercial radio? That it exists at all is key. Formats like traditional jazz, standards, and classical are contracting all the time, disappearing slowly from even the left side of the dial in many markets.
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Non-commercial radio and new media streams are likely the future, if one exists, for this kind of format. The quality that is most obvious to observers is that there is a great deal of polarization among AAA listeners, and little consensus (witness the horribly low women numbers on the Baltimore station). Streaming offers the best choice for customized blends or multiple format variants.
 
TheBigA said:
To me, the most fascinating part about studying fans of this genre is the low tolerance it has for songs outside their favorites.
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What the hell are you talking about?? I absolutely love about 60% of what I hear, I like an additional 35%, and the remaining 5% I can take it or leave it. There are very few tracks which cause me to change the station. Yes I am sure that I am an exception to "the rule" but by you stating "songs outside their favorites" shows me that you are not an active fan of this genre. I would be interested in seeing the demographic info on the listeners to AAA, i.e. age group/annual income, etc. As for David's assertion about "Alternative rock listeners"--- "All were primary listeners to a local alternative station. But each of them only loved about a third of the library", are we talking about 'Alternative' or 'Adult Album Alternative'? Different listeners I would guess. As to "Attempts to start new AAA stations have not met with much success" may be true in large markets, but in peripheral markets like New York City suburbs, WXPK celebrates their 11th anniversary in the format next month. While they may be in "New York's Backyard" with a small signal on a crowded frequency (107.1 FM) I believe they are very happy with how they have done financially.

As to WXPN they serve their listeners well and I find myself accessing their sub-channel Xponential Radio online through TuneIn Radio app, though I find a few too many unfamiliar tracks played there. Of course to David and the Big A, they probably think 95% of the tracks on AAA are unfamiliar LOL!
 
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SuperRadioFan said:
I am sure that I am an exception to "the rule"
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You are. No, I'm not a fan. I'm in the radio business. It doesn't matter if the music is "unfamiliar" to me. What matters is if the audience doesn't like it. And based on the experience of WRXP in NYC, the listeners were never happy with the music. They kept adjusting the mix, and it was never right for the fans.
 
KSWD was a failure
WRXP was a failure
WZGC (Atlanta) was a failure
CIDR (Detroit) was a failure, they've tweaked the playlist to be more of a Modern AC and ratings are better, still not very good for the huge signal it's on.

I guess David is right. Every AAA launch in a major market since 2000 has not done anything. In my home market of Cleveland, the format has failed twice since 2008.

And I'm a P1 Alternative listener and I agree with how hard it is to find something that a large chunk of the audience can agree on. I find myself flipping over to my local NPR station after about every other song.
 
TheBigA said:
You are. No, I'm not a fan. I'm in the radio business. It doesn't matter if the music is "unfamiliar" to me. What matters is if the audience doesn't like it. And based on the experience of WRXP in NYC, the listeners were never happy with the music. They kept adjusting the mix, and it was never right for the fans.
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WRXP is a terrible example to use. They showed what you should NOT do if you are an Adult Alt. station. Mixing Motley Crew and Guns n Roses with Elvis Costello and Steely Dan just doesn't seem to work. Yes their adjustments just did not meet their listeners' expectations. IMO they were not AAA, they were a hybrid of AAA/Classic Rock. OF COURSE the listeners were not happy!!!!! As to unfamiliar music, anyone who has listened to this genre for an extended period of time (at least for 3-5 years minimum) is going to be familiar with the majority of what they hear. Some may be hearing an old track from oh say Los Lobos or Sting, some track they've never heard before. When FM 101.9 FM (later the first to use the calls KSCA) I remember hearing a lot of stuff that was all new to me, even though they were already older tracks at that time in the summer of 1994. So there's always the novelty of discovery for the few of us who are not scared away by hearing something off the beaten path.

NOTE: I just noticed in my post above I was talking about WXPN and also about WXPK. I meant WXPK was celebrating their 11 years on the air. (I have edited that post)
 
chrocket87 said:
KSWD was a failure
WRXP was a failure
WZGC (Atlanta) was a failure
CIDR (Detroit) was a failure, they've tweaked the playlist to be more of a Modern AC and ratings are better, still not very good for the huge signal it's on.

I guess David is right. Every AAA launch in a major market since 2000 has not done anything. In my home market of Cleveland, the format has failed twice since 2008.

And I'm a P1 Alternative listener and I agree with how hard it is to find something that a large chunk of the audience can agree on. I find myself flipping over to my local NPR station after about every other song.
Click to expand...

Since you're in Cleveland, have you checked out oWow??

http://owownow.com/

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/02/former_wmms_program_director_a.html

http://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/92032/john-gorman-launching-cleveland-internet-aaa/



http://www.crainscleveland.com/arti...pendent-internet-station-owow-brings-timeless
 
SuperRadioFan said:
Of course to David and the Big A, they probably think 95% of the tracks on AAA are unfamiliar LOL!
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It does not matter whether I am familiar with the songs on a station... any station. It matters what the listeners or potential listeners to the station and its formats know and, even more, want to hear.

If I listen to an AAA station, I guarantee you that even more than 95% of the music will be unfamiliar to me. I recall when the date approached for us to take over KSCA, we listened non-stop to make sure none of the AAA jocks did a swan song and I was fascinated by the fact that I never heard a song I know, and heard very few that I liked.
 
SuperRadioFan said:
WRXP is a terrible example to use. They showed what you should NOT do if you are an Adult Alt. station.
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Here's an example of the fragmentation BigA and I have been talking about. You did not like the WRXP blend, but others did.

But no matter what the blend, AAA has not had a successful launch that I can think of in the last decade or more.

The Emmis folks knew that for AAA to work, there had to be some kind of reset in the formula. They could not wait for 4 or 5 years for people to get familiar with the music as in today's environment initial listenership would be small.
 
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