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1210 does it again

H

hangman

Frequent Participant
I know we have been beating up and talking constantly about this poor excuse for a talk station...BUT last night they had the gaul to cut the last hour of CTCAM off for another no nothing program. George Noory was going to get into something very informative, he was leading up to it all night. After the four o'clock news the show was gone and another show came on. I had to go nuts trying to pull in some distance signal 1450 was a no show and 1170 was fading in and out, because of the time almost sunrise, so I missed out on the theme, and I do not want to go to the internet or my smart phone to listen to a program that everyone else in the country can dial up for free. How the hell can this big market signal pull this crap, its a disgrace and should not be tolerated, why do they keep this show anyway, a cash cow when they need some. I wrote to CTCAM and the station to no avail. What can be done about this, its unacceptable to preempt a popular show, now with the lousy Phillies season about to begin many shows will be cut. Question.. is this legal, to have a program you do not care about and cut it whenever you want, no other city does this and many have other outlets as a backup, figures this cities AM's are all screwed up....I already know this weekend for Art Bell and CTCAM I am going to have to listen on line to the high deserts KNWZ for the full programs, 1210 does not even carry them on weekends, oh wait one hour tonight.
 
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My view is that this is bad programming on the part of these syndicated shows. They should know that all affiliates don't air all hours of the show. They should never promote something in a later hour, or even assume that stations are running the show in order. All they should promote is what's coming up within each hour.

In answer to your question, the station can do whatever it wants as long as it runs the contracted spots. But the producers of the show should know better.

I doubt very much that the show is a "cash cow." At this hour, it's likely making no money at all, and simply filling the time.
 
TheBigA said:
... the station can do whatever it wants as long as it runs the contracted spots.
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This is totally correct. With nearly all network/syndicated programming, all that is required is that the station air the commercials within the same daypart.

TheBigA said:
At this hour, it's likely making no money at all, and simply filling the time.
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There's a reason why no ratings services rate anything between 1a and 5a: Pssst. No-one's listening (statistically). The 5am hour has "some" value and is often acceptable to infomercial buyers, which would explain the preemption of Coast to Coast AM in that final hour.
 
I understand all these good points, but why would a station deprive its listeners of a show they enjoy. It would only anger them, instead of listening to the station on all dayparts, these potential listeners would just junk it and not listen at all. I am sure if they had the opportunity 990 would gladly pick it up. 1210 is probably blocking any other outlet from grabbing the program. I wonder if Premier radio could do something to either order them to run the show in its entirety 7 days a week or threaten to pull the show and give it to another outlet...
 
It is commonplace for a station to sign up for a syndicated or network program just to keep it from airing on a competitive station. I don't suggest that that's what's going on here, bit it does happen. In this case, the show's a filler for overnights and is unimportant to any ratings or budgets.
 
HGN2001 said:
There's a reason why no ratings services rate anything between 1a and 5a: Pssst. No-one's listening (statistically). The 5am hour has "some" value and is often acceptable to infomercial buyers, which would explain the preemption of Coast to Coast AM in that final hour.
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Ratings are done 24/7. Any subscriber has access to the data.
 
Huh?

"I do not want to go to the internet or my smart phone to listen to a program that everyone else in the country can dial up for free."

If you can post here, you have Internet access. Therefore, you can listen to Internet Radio online at no extra charge. I don't see the problem. Use your PC or whatever you use to post here, or use your smartphone - they all have WiFi, so you can use that same Internet connection without running up data minutes on your phone plan.

Coast to Coast AM also archives their shows, so you can listen later - online and on demand.

I don't see a problem.
 
Beasley should go Talk on WTEL---610 & hammer lousy low rated WNTP & WPHT .
' But--- WTEL would need to air some good talk hosts ---- local & syndicated .
(Or is cbs paying Beasley to air cbs sports on WTEL ? )
 
610 as news--- Talk might not get great ratings---- but--- it might not be too hard to beat horrible WNTP & WPHT.
 
HOW ABOUT---- WWDB--610--- THE Talk Station,? (and move WTEL back to am860.)
 
WWIQ, or whatever the letters were on 106.9, had, arguably, the four biggest names in the national talk space and barely equaled what WPHT could do. Going talk on 610 would split what is already a small audience even more.
 
Premiere doesn't care if they run the show or not. It shows as a 50,000 watt top 10 market clearance on the books.
 
HGN2001 said:
Regardless, the number of listeners is statistically zero and therefore unimportant.
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That is not true, either.

I looked at 12 midnight to 6 AM numbers for several markets in the top 10. Since the numbers are comparable, I'll take LA as an example.

Persons using radio: 1% on average
Total cume of all stations: 1,720,000
Cume reach: 16% of total population.

That is not "statistically zero". It is a big number.

If you look at 5 to 6 AM alone, it has a PUR of 3, and the top station has an AQH listenership of 33,000 persons in that hour alone. That kind of numbers demonstrate why most morning shows begin at 5 AM now.


 
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When I say "statistically zero", it probably wasn't the best terminology. Compared to all other dayparts, the overnights generally bring in a very low percentage of a station's revenue - and that's what everyone in commercial radio is looking at. It really doesn't matter if there are a few warm bodies out there - the all-important numbers are preceded with a dollar sign.

Also, LA is probably not quite the same as Philadelphia in terms of "up-all-night" listening. Yes, they're both large markets, but Philly is a bit more "sleepy" than an LA or a New York.

5a to 6a has, for many years, been a dumping ground for the cheapest commercials of the day ($0, $2, $3, $5, $10 - as opposed to hundreds or thousands for other dayparts), because it has at least a minimal rating and can be useful for getting the cost-per-point average down on media buys. To a lesser extent, 12a to 1a is also occasionally similarly used. Overnights, as far as agency-buying goes, is nearly never figured into anyone's projections, budgets, or analysis. I state this from real-world experience.
 
Unregistered said:
Beasley should go Talk on WTEL---610 & hammer lousy low rated WNTP & WPHT .
' But--- WTEL would need to air some good talk hosts ---- local & syndicated .
(Or is cbs paying Beasley to air cbs sports on WTEL ? )
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Beasley is doing that in Las Vegas, on the AM with the best signal in the market. They have it loaded up with syndicated and time-brokered shows, with a 0.6 share. CBS has the other talk station in Las Vegas, AM/FM simulcast with a 3.0 share.

Beasley doesn't seem to spend much money on their AMs. They probably are getting paid something by CBS to continue running the sports talk.
 
HGN2001 said:
When I say "statistically zero", it probably wasn't the best terminology. Compared to all other dayparts, the overnights generally bring in a very low percentage of a station's revenue - and that's what everyone in commercial radio is looking at. It really doesn't matter if there are a few warm bodies out there - the all-important numbers are preceded with a dollar sign.
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By that standard, 7-Midnight and most weekend dayparts are no better than overnights. They produce nearly no revenue and are generally used to bonus up weekdays to get the CPP to the level needed for particular buys.

However, there is much to be said for being on the air with good programming at all times. It has a synergistic effect that boosts 6 AM to 7 PM where most of the buys start.

Also, LA is probably not quite the same as Philadelphia in terms of "up-all-night" listening. Yes, they're both large markets, but Philly is a bit more "sleepy" than an LA or a New York.
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I looked at an assortment of PPM markets including LA, San Diego, PHX, Chicago, New York, Houston, Dallas and San Antonio. All had a Midnight to 5 AM cume reach of between 16 and 17% of the total 12+. The one with the lowest PUR was LA, followed by San Diego. The highest were Phoenix and San Antonio.

So I think that there is very little difference in overnight reach in the PPM markets, with the range being less than +/- 0.5 in the PUR.

5a to 6a has, for many years, been a dumping ground for the cheapest commercials of the day ($0, $2, $3, $5, $10 - as opposed to hundreds or thousands for other dayparts),
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In my experience in the last two or three decades, including a decade as GSM in a top 15 market, 5 AM was incorporated in morning drive rotators and premium priced. Our morning shows began at 5; clients who wanted 6-9 instead of 5 to 10 paid a surcharge.

because it has at least a minimal rating and can be useful for getting the cost-per-point average down on media buys.
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In many cases, it beats other specific 6 AM to 7 OM hours, and is ahead of 7 PM to 8 PM and most weekend hours.

To a lesser extent, 12a to 1a is also occasionally similarly used.
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That has changed. Occasionally you can get 7-8 PM or even 7-9 PM on a buy, but 9-Midnight is the land of ROS or bonus spots... and club business on weekends.

Overnights, as far as agency-buying goes, is nearly never figured into anyone's projections, budgets, or analysis. I state this from real-world experience.
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You can generally look at projections for 6 AM to 7 PM and know where 85% or so of revenue is coming from on transactional business.
 
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