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Radio Determines Which Songs People Remember

T

TheFonz

Star Participant
Another thread on this board moved off-topic, so I thought I'd start a new thread.......... in case there are any final thoughts. The discussion started because a poster said he didn't remember a song that was played on Top 40 radio in 1959. Here is my final post in the other thread:

1.Radio programs to listeners under the age of 55; therefore it "tests" audiences under 55 for songs they like and remember.

2. Audiences under age 55 will like and remember fewer '50s & '60s songs than audiences over age 55.

3. Radio will play fewer songs that listeners over age 55 like and remember.

4. Therefore, commercial over-the-air radio is not the place to be for listeners of ANY age who want to hear the full '50s & '60s Top 40 (or even Top 10) music experience.


Note: If '50s music isn't played at all in your market anymore, substitute '70s for '50s above.
 
Top40 really did not come along until 1960 or so....there was probably early incarnations in the late 50s but the format really took off in the 60s with such stations like WABC, WLS and others.

A lot of early 60s does not fit into "classic" formats these days..Beatles and Beach Boys do...but Leslie Gore, Frank Sinatra and such do not..Im at the age break you mention...and remember a lot of the 60s...even country stuff from then (which my dad was a listener to..Eddie Arnold and such).

Remember the 25-54 age bracket has always been part of the ratings...Even in my days as a DJ, that demo was part of the ratings...but nothing after 55 then....NOW with the baby boomers hitting that age range (and I am on the back side of the boomer generation), its a viable audience as to music...I dont see a lot of boomers listening to Lady Gaga or Miley Cyrus (ok, maybe dirty thoughts flying about over them but their music?? Cyrus doing the Paul Simon classic "50ways to leave your lover" on the SNL 40th was a gag moment.....made me barf anyway....As soon as I heard the opening melody, I changed channels...

55+ is now a age group that has to be taken seriously in ratings...lots of money in that demo...and they still listen to music and radio.
 
ContinuousWave said:
Top40 really did not come along until 1960 or so....there was probably early incarnations in the late 50s but the format really took off in the 60s with such stations like WABC, WLS and others.

A lot of early 60s does not fit into "classic" formats these days..Beatles and Beach Boys do...but Leslie Gore, Frank Sinatra and such do not..Im at the age break you mention...and remember a lot of the 60s...even country stuff from then (which my dad was a listener to..Eddie Arnold and such).

Remember the 25-54 age bracket has always been part of the ratings...Even in my days as a DJ, that demo was part of the ratings...but nothing after 55 then....NOW with the baby boomers hitting that age range (and I am on the back side of the boomer generation), its a viable audience as to music...I dont see a lot of boomers listening to Lady Gaga or Miley Cyrus (ok, maybe dirty thoughts flying about over them but their music?? Cyrus doing the Paul Simon classic "50ways to leave your lover" on the SNL 40th was a gag moment.....made me barf anyway....As soon as I heard the opening melody, I changed channels...

55+ is now a age group that has to be taken seriously in ratings...lots of money in that demo...and they still listen to music and radio.
Click to expand...


You could be right about Top 40. I remember radio station "surveys" that ranked songs, but they probably didn't use the term "Top 40". I hope you're right about the 55+ demo. If that doesn't happen, radio is going to "age" itself out of business.i
 
ContinuousWave said:
Top40 really did not come along until 1960 or so....there was probably early incarnations in the late 50s but the format really took off in the 60s with such stations like WABC, WLS and others.
Click to expand...

WABC and WLS were very late comers to the format, and neither fully engaged, leaving some ABC network programs in place. New York had WMCA, WINS and WMGM well before WABC jumped in. Chicago had stations like WJJD.

The first Top 40 was KOWH in Omaha in 1952. This was quickly followed by additional Storz stations and helped Gordon McLendon to grow from KLIF to a group including Louisville, El Paso, San Antonio, Houston, and Shreveport before 1960.

By 1960, there were several hundred Top 40 stations.

Remember the 25-54 age bracket has always been part of the ratings...
Click to expand...

Not really. It was not until the mid-60s until we had copious demographic breaks, but most ratings prior to that were very broad based... essentially everyone all grouped together.

Even in my days as a DJ, that demo was part of the ratings...but nothing after 55 then
Click to expand...

Actually, ratings in the 50's were based on all people of all ages. Here is a typical Hooper from 1961... there were teens, young adults, older adults, seniors. Everyone.

NOW with the baby boomers hitting that age range (and I am on the back side of the boomer generation), its a viable audience as to music...
Click to expand...

There have always been listeners in the older age groups. Nothing changed with boomers, whether it be listenership or ratings.

The real issue is that advertisers of significance do not want to reach those over 55. You can be #1 and if all those listeners are over 55, you will pretty much have no billings.

55+ is now a age group that has to be taken seriously in ratings...lots of money in that demo...and they still listen to music and radio.
Click to expand...

But essentially no available ad revenue.
 
ContinuousWave said:
A lot of early 60s does not fit into "classic" formats these days..Beatles and Beach Boys do...but Leslie Gore, Frank Sinatra and such do not..Im at the age break you mention...and remember a lot of the 60s...even country stuff from then (which my dad was a listener to..Eddie Arnold and such).
Click to expand...
These artists all fit the adult standards format, though for the first two it is only the softer material.

I remember replying to a post about "God Only Knows" on another thread, but my reply is gone for some reason. I think I said it is played on my favorite station but I don't care for it.
 
TheFonz said:
Note: If '50s music isn't played at all in your market anymore, substitute '70s for '50s above.
Click to expand...

And as I said in the other thread: What's your point? It's not radio's job to remind people about old music. People need to take responsibility for their own likes and dislikes.

If you want to hear the "full 50s and 60's music experience," it's all available for purchase. Or subscribe to Sirius and listen to 50s on 5 or 60s on 6. $15 a month, no commercials.
 
TheBigA said:
And as I said in the other thread: What's your point? It's not radio's job to remind people about old music. People need to take responsibility for their own likes and dislikes.
Click to expand...

I listed my point above. If radio continues to ignore 55+ they will "age" themselves out of business.

If you want to hear the "full 50s and 60's music experience," it's all available for purchase. Or subscribe to Sirius and listen to 50s on 5 or 60s on 6. $15 a month, no commercials.
Click to expand...

As a '50s & '60s music fan, I did that 15 years ago. Today's '60s & '70s music fans will be doing that soon, if they haven't already.
 
TheFonz said:
I listed my point above. If radio continues to ignore 55+ they will "age" themselves out of business.
Click to expand...

If radio pays any attention to 55+, they will run themselves out of business. There is no advertising money for stations that program mostly for 55+ persons from the national, regional and local agencies.

And even in local direct business, there is pretty much no money for exclusively senior-focused stations.


As a '50s & '60s music fan, I did that 15 years ago. Today's '60s & '70s music fans will be doing that soon, if they haven't already.
Click to expand...

And that is because in the markets where getting any agency business depends on the listenership among those under 55, the eras you describe are principally liked by people that are over the age that advertisers seek.

This is not a radio issue at all... it is based on the marketing strategy of the businesses that advertise.
 
TheBigA said:
And as I said in the other thread: What's your point? It's not radio's job to remind people about old music. People need to take responsibility for their own likes and dislikes.

Or subscribe to Sirius and listen to 50s on 5 or 60s on 6. $15 a month, no commercials.
Click to expand...

Let's not forget about internet radio. Awesome!
 
TheFonz said:
I listed my point above. If radio continues to ignore 55+ they will "age" themselves out of business.
Click to expand...

You're viewing radio through your own eyes. Radio is not a museum. Radio can't stand still. Because in ten years, those 50s music fans will be passing away.

Radio needs to evolve and change as the audience changes. And from what I see from the work I do every day, we ARE changing and adapting to younger audiences. It's true that younger audiences aren't as dedicated to radio as they were 50 years ago. That means we work harder.
 
TheBigA said:
You're viewing radio through your own eyes. Radio is not a museum. Radio can't stand still. Because in ten years, those 50s music fans will be passing away.

Radio needs to evolve and change as the audience changes. And from what I see from the work I do every day, we ARE changing and adapting to younger audiences. It's true that younger audiences aren't as dedicated to radio as they were 50 years ago. That means we work harder.
Click to expand...

When radio stops programming to 55+ they lose an audience for about 20 years. It's a whole lot easier for a business to keep customers than it is to attract new customers. I certainly understand your "hard work". As for us used-up 55+ers, there are PLENTY of other options for music out there.
 
TheBigA said:
You're viewing radio through your own eyes. Radio is not a museum. Radio can't stand still. Because in ten years, those 50s music fans will be passing away.

Radio needs to evolve and change as the audience changes. And from what I see from the work I do every day, we ARE changing and adapting to younger audiences. It's true that younger audiences aren't as dedicated to radio as they were 50 years ago. That means we work harder.
Click to expand...

About once a year I post my favorite radio analogy. It's about that time of the year.............

Radio is the Pimp. The advertiser is the John. And the listener is the Ho. The John is constantly looking for younger Hos. But the Pimp has trouble finding younger Hos................they have found other sources for their services. So the John finds other sources for his business. Soon the Pimp is out of business and working at the local car wash. As for the old used-up Hos, they too have found other sources for their business. And they will live happily ever after. The End.
 
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TheFonz said:
When radio stops programming to 55+ they lose an audience for about 20 years. It's a whole lot easier for a business to keep customers than it is to attract new customers. I certainly understand your "hard work". As for us used-up 55+ers, there are PLENTY of other options for music out there.
Click to expand...

And it is fortunate for you there are other sources, because from the perspective of broadcasters, there is no revenue to be had serving the older demographics.

It is immaterial whether older people have money. If advertisers find that it costs too much to make the sale among older consumers, they will not "ask" them to buy their product. And that is why there are essentially no 55+ ad buys coming to radio from local, regional and national agencies.
 
Not to mention Spotify for free (or a low subscription rate)

TheBigA said:
And as I said in the other thread: What's your point? It's not radio's job to remind people about old music. People need to take responsibility for their own likes and dislikes.

If you want to hear the "full 50s and 60's music experience," it's all available for purchase. Or subscribe to Sirius and listen to 50s on 5 or 60s on 6. $15 a month, no commercials.
Click to expand...
 
TheFonz said:
Radio is the Pimp. The advertiser is the John. And the listener is the Ho. The John is constantly looking for younger Hos. But the Pimp has trouble finding younger Hos................they have found other sources for their services.
Click to expand...

You call it an analogy. I call it fiction. Pimps never have trouble finding younger hos. What you've done is invented fiction that you believe, because it proves your point. Only problem is it's completely false.

Look, if it was strictly up to the people in radio, we'd love to program 50s and 60s oldies. But the only way we could do it is we'd have to send you a bill every month. And you would never pay.

You want a personalized service for free. That will never happen. My analogy is you want to stay young forever, and never do anything to make that happen. That's a fairy tale.
 
TheFonz said:
When radio stops programming to 55+ they lose an audience for about 20 years. It's a whole lot easier for a business to keep customers than it is to attract new customers. I certainly understand your "hard work". As for us used-up 55+ers, there are PLENTY of other options for music out there.
Click to expand...

One of the ironies is that they lose about a quarter of the US population, which according to some statistics, is still aging.

I realise that the ad agencies are making the decisions that drive the process, as it has so well been explained here and on other threads. Just making an observation here.

I suppose, considering the situation, those aficionados of older music based formats should just appreciate the stations out there which still program older music. It seems with the 'clusterization' of radio, some companies just run those formats to keep a signal on the air, make a handful of bucks, and absorb the loss with other stations in the cluster that make more money.
 
boombox4 said:
...
I suppose, considering the situation, those aficionados of older music based formats should just appreciate the stations out there which still program older music. It seems with the 'clusterization' of radio, some companies just run those formats to keep a signal on the air, make a handful of bucks, and absorb the loss with other stations in the cluster that make more money.
Click to expand...

While there is one here in Nashville (94.5), it doesn't program music old enough for me. So I put my own together. Check it out at different times of the day, or just keep the Recent songs page visible and look at it from time to time.. 1340bgn.net
 
boombox4 said:
It seems with the 'clusterization' of radio, some companies just run those formats to keep a signal on the air, make a handful of bucks, and absorb the loss with other stations in the cluster that make more money.
Click to expand...
That is true in a lot of cases. Standards is one of those formats that gets revived on the worst-performing/worst-signalled AM station in a cluster, run off a satellite feed, sold as a "bonus" with the rest of the stations in a cluster, rather than take the station silent.

But even then, you'll only find that in the smaller markets. As far as the major markets go, until and unless advertisers (and by that I refer to the national accounts which have agencies buying time for them) decide 55+ is a marketable demographic, you're not even going to find standards as "space filler".
 
TheFonz said:
About once a year I post my favorite radio analogy. It's about that time of the year.............

Radio is the Pimp. The advertiser is the John. And the listener is the Ho. The John is constantly looking for younger Hos. But the Pimp has trouble finding younger Hos................they have found other sources for their services. So the John finds other sources for his business. Soon the Pimp is out of business and working at the local car wash. As for the old used-up Hos, they too have found other sources for their business. And they will live happily ever after. The End.
Click to expand...

Nothing like respect for your audience. And I MEAN nothing like it...
 
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