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Who's minding the store?

TheBigA said:
But once again, no one is "making excuses." The information you lack is how management dealt with the situation. Because you don't know, you assume they did nothing. I have no reason to believe that. How many more mistakes have you heard since Sunday morning?
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WABC ran the same furnace (the beast in your basement) commercial all last spring and into the summer. "Cold weather is coming," it proclaimed. You're completely missing the point. I'm not talking about a single incident.

In New York, employee relations are complicated. WABC is a union shop. You're not dealing with minimum wage people, but union technicians from Local 16. There's a process you go through with them. I'm sure that's what's going on. You want to play "gotcha" with the union? Be my guest.
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Fair enough. So what's your point, exactly?

- That mistakes are acceptable?
- That change is impossible?
- That there's no point in calling attention to a problem?
- That on one should try to do better?

What exactly are you trying to say? Sum it up for us, PLEASE!
 
wadio said:
WABC ran the same furnace (the beast in your basement) commercial all last spring and into the summer. "Cold weather is coming," it proclaimed. You're completely missing the point. I'm not talking about a single incident.
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Heating companies schedule tune up spots in the summer. That's the best time to have that work done. So I doubt it was a mistake.


wadio said:
What exactly are you trying to say? Sum it up for us, PLEASE!
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How many times do I have to say this? Are you purposely ignoring this? No one is saying mistakes are acceptable. No one. So stop saying it.

People on the outside don't know how management is dealing with the situation. But I can tell you, knowing people at Cumulus, that they are. I myself was a NABET technician in NYC at one time, and I know they have a system and structure for dealing with mistakes. It's a union matter.

You ask if there's no point calling attention to a problem. It depends on what you want to happen. If you have a complaint or criticism, call or write the station directly. Don't post on message boards. But you haven't answered my question: What do you want to happen? People to get fired? A public apology? Tell me.
 
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wadio said:
WABC ran the same furnace (the beast in your basement) commercial all last spring and into the summer. "Cold weather is coming," it proclaimed. You're completely missing the point. I'm not talking about a single incident.
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In my experience, wrong copy or outdated copy is just as likely or more likely to be the fault of the client.

Today's traffic systems like Wide Orbit and Marketron (to name the two most likely to be used in major markets) have functions that control ad rotation, kill dates and substitutions. This data is placed directly on the commercial log.

Errors come when the client gives wrong instructions or does not update seasonal or event-related spots, when the traffic person does not key in the order correctly or when production gives the wrong number to a cut or puts the wrong audio in the right cut number.

Stations have to give make-goods for their mistakes. So it's costly. When a problem happens repeatedly, the process or the person involved are reviewed.

But, as we know from BigA's post, there are cases where clients specifically run "out of season" spots such as heating and cooling companies wanting to get furnace maintenance business in the slow season. It may sound stupid... unless you have ever had your unit conk out on a sub-zero day. Same goes for AC maintenance in the early Spring.

In Los Angeles, we have an aggressive mattress firm that runs is Christmas, Presidents' Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July and other sales a week to 10 days after the "day" has passed. It sounds odd, but it must work for them as they have been doing that for the last 20+ years.

Fair enough. So what's your point, exactly?

- That mistakes are acceptable?
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Except in nuclear reactors, hospitals and space shots, we tolerate a small margin of error. To be perfect is so vastly more expensive that in all but life threatening endeavors we accept occasional defects, errors and mistakes.

- That change is impossible?
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When we see that training or changed procedures can eliminate repetitive fails, we try to adapt. In some cases, we have to deal with costs, union rules and Murphy's Law.

- That there's no point in calling attention to a problem?
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I think harping on a once in a long time occurrence is overkill.

- That on one should try to do better?
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Always. There are few things that can't be improved from experience, new knowledge, new technology and training.

What exactly are you trying to say? Sum it up for us, PLEASE!
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Sometimes bad things happen. Like black ice on the road, they may be once in a lifetime "accidents", or they may be careless mistakes which can be dealt with with training and disciplinary action or they may be technical glitches that simply happen. We have to put each incident in perspective and decide if action can be taken to prevent future incidents.
 
TheBigA said:
Heating companies schedule tune up spots in the summer. That's the best time to have that work done. So I doubt it was a mistake.
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Oh, please! When it's March and the copy says, "Cold weather is on the way," it's a freakin' mistake! Sheesh.

OK, I think I finally know what the "A" stand for -- The Big Antagonist! ;-)

Take a 6-minute break and go look at the old Monty Python Argument sketch on YouTube.

Your technique is exactly the same -- grab onto anything in a post that you can possibly disagree with and off you go!

My point is very simple: radio stations should try harder to avoid what were once considered unacceptable mistakes, at least at stations where I once worked. Why is that being met with so much backlash from you guys? You'd think I'd made some horrible controversial statement!

On the other hand you still haven't said why you find this topic so upsetting. What's wrong with at least striving to do a better job?
 
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wadio said:
On the other hand you still haven't said why you find this topic so upsetting. What's wrong with at least striving to do a better job?
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And you continue to ignore my question: What do you want? An apology? A refund? Someone fired? Answer that simple question.

You want ME to represent WABC? No. That's not my job. I represent me. That's it. I strive for excellence, and my track record shows I achieve it.

If you want someone to represent WABC, you need to contact them. Why haven't you done that yet?
 
wadio said:
Oh, please! When it's March and the copy says, "Cold weather is on the way," it's a freakin' mistake! Sheesh.
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If that is what the client ordered, it is not a mistake. And if the ad ran enough times for the collective "you" on this board to notice, it was intentional.

My point is very simple: radio stations should try harder to avoid what were once considered unacceptable mistakes, at least at stations where I once worked. Why is that being met with so much backlash from you guys? You'd think I'd made some horrible controversial statement!
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You are making way too much out of one documented case of this kind of mistake on that particular station. It's very likely something they have already taken steps to prevent or control.

On the other hand you still haven't said why you find this topic so upsetting. What's wrong with at least striving to do a better job?
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What's wrong with making a mistake and then correcting it. Our business is not static, and there are all kinds of new procedures and practices being learned every day.

For all we know, perhaps the station had just installed bcreative or some other system, and an error was made. We don't know what exactly happened or how energetic the response by management was.

The general response to this type of thing I see is "how did it happen and how can we prevent it happening again". And then we move on.
 
DavidEduardo said:
If that is what the client ordered, it is not a mistake. And if the ad ran enough times for the collective "you" on this board to notice, it was intentional.
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Geez, David, nice try. If you care about your clients you get off your butt and phone or email the client to say, "Hey, wanna update your copy?" That's called providing service. It's much easier to retain a client than it is to get a new one.

Again, I mentioned EXAMPLES of sloppiness -- I'm not harping on those specific instances.

There's a thread on another board about the mispronunciation of "W." Another example of sloppiness. Should that not be pointed out? Is there a problem with striving for excellence or should we all just give up?

Go ahead, next excuse.
 
wadio said:
Classic Monty Python!!
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So you don't know. Thanks for a direct answer.

Look, if you think WABC is sloppy, or unprofessional, or terrible, I don't care. I don't make a penny from them, so your opinion about them doesn't matter to me.

For some reason you continue to listen to a station you don't like. If it hurts when you do that, don't do that!

If you'd listen to a different station, you'd be a lot happier. Don't you want to be happy?
 
wadio said:
Geez, David, nice try. If you care about your clients you get off your butt and phone or email the client to say, "Hey, wanna update your copy?" That's called providing service. It's much easier to retain a client than it is to get a new one.
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And how do we know they did not do that? In the case of agency buys, as long as we are running the copy specified in the order, all is well. If we have a relationship with the agency (not the case with programatic buys) we might ask "are you sure that is the right copy? It sounded odd given the current weather." The problem than is that the client might just cancel, rather than refresh the copy.

Again, I mentioned EXAMPLES of sloppiness -- I'm not harping on those specific instances.
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Kermit Schaefer made a long career out of documenting radio and TVs bloopers. Many of those, like the famous "... Hoobert Heaver..." were done by some of the greatest pros in the business. Radio is littered with copy like "Flying A Truckstop... a great place to eat and get gas". Mis-cues and mispronunciations and such have happened since radio was born.

In my first year on the air, I once gave the WCUY 92.3 frequency as "ninty poo point pee" and did a return to the network as "and now the latest erection results." I later found that many people had done the same thing or variants, and we had all tried to learn from them.

There's a thread on another board about the mispronunciation of "W." Another example of sloppiness. Should that not be pointed out? Is there a problem with striving for excellence or should we all just give up?
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Or, perhaps we should read that thread where one poster takes issue with "Feb-u-ary" as the pronunciation of the second month. Yet that is a dictionary approved pronunciation and has been for about 20 years.

"Dub-a-you" is likely going to be the accepted future pronunciation of the letter. Language changes.

Go ahead, next excuse.
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It's not an excuse. It's reality. People occasionally mess up.

Haven't you ever made a mistake in public. I have... I even quoted two of many right now.
 
David, if Kermit Schaefer were alive today and posted those bloopers on this forum he'd be pilloried! God forbid anyone should point out a mistake, much less make fun of it! Bloopers? No way!

"- I P on the 10th floor of the Gimbels Store" was obviously excusable and should have been swept under the rug. The engineer switched the mic on after the "W" because he was a disgruntled Union member making minimum wage and nobody was listening anyway. Besides it would be presumed to be Gimbels' fault, so who gives a s**t.

This thread is unbelievable.
 
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wadio said:
David, if Kermit Schaefer were alive today and posted those bloopers on this forum he'd be pilloried! God forbid anyone should point out a mistake, much less make fun of it! Bloopers? No way! .
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I know of any number of on-air people, ranging from local TV newscasters in LA to cable anchors to morning show radio hosts who periodically do a segment of their biggest gaffes of the past year. One does it on his birthday, several do it around New Year's Day. All have a big giggle over the fact that they goofed on occasion and were, like the viewers or listeners, just human.

It's cool to have a laugh over inadvertent mistakes. It's not cool to put them in a pillory and throw rocks at them.
 
Every broadcaster makes mistakes. David was brave enough to list some of his, and once a year a tv station here in Ottawa airs their bloopers. They're great fun and show a human side.

No one in broadcasting intends to make a mistake. Every city will run ads that sound out of season, but a closer listen shows they were truly intended to run at that time. Others that may be out of date might be aired for a variety of reasons. The new systems used in broadcasting always have kinks to work out, and often can only be done so once they're put into use. I remember being a board op at a small town station in Iowa, and our system literally blew one night while I was in the studio. We had purchased a new system and were preparing it when this took place. We had to put the new system on the air almost immediately and it wasn't ready yet. It took months of constant babysitting to work out all the kinks, and there was one we never could eliminate. It would run a station ID during the overnight talk show 2 minutes before the bottom of the hour and nothing we did could stop it.
 
I find it amusing that so much time is being spent here defending the indefensible -- and with such passion! If I were in a position of authority and threatening to shut down WABC I could understand it, but I'm just a guy posting an opinion on a message board. I merely pointed out the increasing sloppiness of radio broadcasting, gave a couple of specific examples, and suggested that maybe they could do better.

When Jack Walsh ran GE and implemented Sic Sigma he cautioned that if your quality is 98% perfect you can't sit back and congratulate yourself because that's not good enough. Someone else will achieve 99% and start to eat into your business.

But what I find troubling is that the backlash against QC here is a microcosm for a bigger societal problem. Whenever I see an item in the paper about a serious crime I go to the end of the article and, sure enough, the person who committed the crime has a list of 9, 15, 31 or some large number of priors. The legal system keeps making excuses until finally someone is dead. In this case the eventual death will be radio.
 
On the one hand you say it's a serious problem. But when you're asked about solutions, it all becomes a big joke, and we all have no sense of humor.

It's like a woman I know who was complaining about her relationship. When asked what could be done to make it better, she explained, "Men want to fix things. Women just want to be heard." So there you go.
 
For some reason, this thread came up as one that had a new post and I started reading through it and saw a post that was so wrong, I just had to correct it:

"In New York, employee relations are complicated. WABC is a union shop. You're not dealing with minimum wage people, but union technicians from Local 16. There's a process you go through with them. I'm sure that's what's going on. You want to play "gotcha" with the union? Be my guest."

WABC has not been a union shop for many years. I believe there are just a couple of NABET engineers left at the Cumulus complex and all the folks who work on board shifts are indeed "minimum wage people". There are no NABET people working board shifts at WABC.
 
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