RD Top US Markets Incorrect

According to the latest Nielsen, Radio Discussion needs to reposition the markets.
http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/...udio/market_populations_and_rankings_2014.pdf

According to Nielsen:
1. New York
2. Los Angeles
3. Chicago
4. San Fransico
5. Dallas/Ft. Worth
6. Houston
7. Washington DC
8. Philadelphia
9. Atlanta
10. Boston

Radio Discussions is correct 1-5 However, 6-10 is not correct.

6. Philadelphia
7. Houston
8. Washington DC/Baltimore
9. Boston
10. Detroit

More importantly, who bother listing them based on market size in the first place? Why not just put them in alphabetical order, which makes more sense?

ChuckTiller said:

According to the latest Nielsen, Radio Discussion needs to reposition the markets.
http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/...udio/market_populations_and_rankings_2014.pdf

According to Nielsen:
1. New York
2. Los Angeles
3. Chicago
4. San Fransico
5. Dallas/Ft. Worth
6. Houston
7. Washington DC
8. Philadelphia
9. Atlanta
10. Boston

Radio Discussions is correct 1-5 However, 6-10 is not correct.

6. Philadelphia
7. Houston
8. Washington DC/Baltimore
9. Boston
10. Detroit

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Thanks for your message.

I will have to research what resource I used as I do not have it handy. Needless to say the market sizes (populations) are different and Nielsen should be updating the markets. We'll see if they do..

Avid Listener said:

More importantly, who bother listing them based on market size in the first place? Why not just put them in alphabetical order, which makes more sense?

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Because any "Top" list will be in order of importance, either least to greatest or greatest to least. We choose greatest to least. You certainly do not have to visit them if you do not like how they are arranged. : )

That IS the latest Nielsen info which was sent to Salem Radio Houston. By the way, Houston has been market #6 for a few years.

RDGeneralManager said:

Because any "Top" list will be in order of importance, either least to greatest or greatest to least. We choose greatest to least. You certainly do not have to visit them if you do not like how they are arranged. : )

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I stand corrected. I thought that the reason for a logical arrangement was to make them easier to find. And, since the alphabet hasn't changed in many centuries, while the sizes of radio markets change on a regular basis, putting them in alphabetical order would not only make it easier for us to find them, it would make your job easier, since you wouldn't have to upgrade the order of forums until such time as someone changes the order of the alphabet.

As for visiting them myself, I only visit Atlanta's forum, since that's the market where I live. I don't care about local radio in any of the other cities, since I don't live there and therefore do not listen to them. The only exception is Pittsburgh, where I used to live, which is not a top market and is therefore located in the second tier section which is in alphabetical order. Guess what? Alphabetical order works really well for the "Middle" list.

ChuckTiller said:

That IS the latest Nielsen info which was sent to Salem Radio Houston. By the way, Houston has been market #6 for a few years.

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It may be, but the populations have changed. Sooo... we'll wait and see, or until someone provides a definitive report that this is what Nielsen will use this year, 2015.

Avid Listener said:

I stand corrected. I thought that the reason for a logical arrangement was to make them easier to find. And, since the alphabet hasn't changed in many centuries, while the sizes of radio markets change on a regular basis, putting them in alphabetical order would not only make it easier for us to find them, it would make your job easier, since you wouldn't have to upgrade the order of forums until such time as someone changes the order of the alphabet.

As for visiting them myself, I only visit Atlanta's forum, since that's the market where I live. I don't care about local radio in any of the other cities, since I don't live there and therefore do not listen to them. The only exception is Pittsburgh, where I used to live, which is not a top market and is therefore located in the second tier section which is in alphabetical order. Guess what? Alphabetical order works really well for the "Middle" list.

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I understand your point, and even agree with you to a point. After all, I have started the task of rearranging the forums to match 2015. I imagine part of the reason of wanting to keep the Top 20 being listed largest to smallest is because that how the boards were initially designed back in 200X. Does that mean we have to keep them that way? No, but I imagine more members would upset than happy.

As it is many are not too happy about the "Middle" list getting rearranged with all the "Other Local Markets" now under their respective States, with the exception of the Northern New England forum, of which I moved under Maine. Soon all the US markets will be alphabetically listed under The United States. The Top 20 will still be listed in their own category.

I am adding the market size in the descriptions of the markets, which means that when there is a change, we will have to make that change as well. Although I am considering listing them on a page (like a Google spreadsheet) with links instead, for those interested in the market sizes. That way, any changes will be easier.

Okay, have your way and wait. Consider that you are getting this info from the operations manager of the 4th largest city in the country in addition to the Nielsen's. Houston has been gaining in population as cities like Philadelphia and Detroit have been losing population.

ChuckTiller said:

Okay, have your way and wait. Consider that you are getting this info from the operations manager of the 4th largest city in the country in addition to the Nielsen's. Houston has been gaining in population as cities like Philadelphia and Detroit have been losing population.

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Gee, Chuck, why do you care what Nielsen says? Salem doesn't subscribe. I suppose selling spots doesn't matter in a company with a business model of preachers ripping off old ladies' life savings in order to subsidize Phil Boyce's hate talk.

With all do respect, Fred, your statement has nothing to do with the ranking order of the stations. You don't like Salem; I get that.

ChuckTiller said:

Okay, have your way and wait. Consider that you are getting this info from the operations manager of the 4th largest city in the country in addition to the Nielsen's. Houston has been gaining in population as cities like Philadelphia and Detroit have been losing population.

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Chuck, I don't question your credibility or the Nielsen report for 2014! I appreciate that you have brought this to our attention... I just changed the markets a couple weeks ago. I do wish I could find the resource I used, but it was based on population size.

DavidEduardo said:

Nielsen updates population and ranks each October.

The list Chuck submitted is exactly the same as the Nielsen Redbook Fall 2014 list.

I posted a copy at http://www.americanradiohistory.com/research_arbitron.htm. Look for 2014 Red Book.

Houston has been Market number 6 for quite a few years.

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Yes, David... I have seen that report. I am trying to find what resource I used to change them. It has to do with actual city populations though...

DavidEduardo said:

Only a couple out of roughly 250 markets change rank each year, and when they do, it is usually a change of one or two rank positions. So if Phoenix and Seattle flip position, it is just the #15 becomes 14th and the #14 becomes 15th. It only happens once a year, and is based on Nielsen's own demographers and the Census Bureau's ACS annual population update.

In other words, the changes would be barely perceptible and not a significant amount of change.

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Saint Louis is a good example.. look at Nielsen's population for Saint Louis, then Google it... it is vastly different, is it not? That's why I bumped Tampa out..

I am all for finding the correct standard to use, and since this is about radio... I'll concede we should be using Nielsen. Give me a little time, I'll adjust to the current Nielsen report.

ChuckTiller said:

According to the latest Nielsen, Radio Discussion needs to reposition the markets.
http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/...udio/market_populations_and_rankings_2014.pdf

According to Nielsen:
1. New York
2. Los Angeles
3. Chicago
4. San Fransico
5. Dallas/Ft. Worth
6. Houston
7. Washington DC
8. Philadelphia
9. Atlanta
10. Boston

Radio Discussions is correct 1-5 However, 6-10 is not correct.

6. Philadelphia
7. Houston
8. Washington DC/Baltimore
9. Boston
10. Detroit

Click to expand...

I seem to remember seeing a listing for TV markets and Philly is #6 on it. The radio markets Wilmington Delaware is a separate market from Philly's, plus Atlantic City NJ too, I believe. So in radio Philly was #8 the last time I saw a listing and in TV Philly was #6. That's been a couple of years ago so it may not be correct today.

I believe this version of the board was created in 2006, when Doug Fleming died, & his parents took over the board, due to it being only in Doug's name. As a result, the board was reformatted to separate markets from states by the people that the Flemings hired. The way it was originally done, was that each state had its own board. When in that messageboard, that if there were more topics pertaining to a specific market, then that market was in a sub-messageboard of that state. Out of the markets that are listed in the top 10, I know Detroit was not given its own messageboard, because prior to 2006, the Michigan board wasn't even there, due to few hits. There were some other states that weren't listed either on the messageboard, prior to 2006, for the same reason (forgot which ones).

I say rather than change the rankings of separate messageboards, list the markets in the states section, & the market in a sub-section of the state's messageboard. It would be a lot easier to find, & not have to change around.

dave73 said:

I believe this version of the board was created in 2006, when Doug Fleming died, & his parents took over the board, due to it being only in Doug's name. As a result, the board was reformatted to separate markets from states by the people that the Flemings hired. The way it was originally done, was that each state had its own board. When in that messageboard, that if there were more topics pertaining to a specific market, then that market was in a sub-messageboard of that state. Out of the markets that are listed in the top 10, I know Detroit was not given its own messageboard, because prior to 2006, the Michigan board wasn't even there, due to few hits. There were some other states that weren't listed either on the messageboard, prior to 2006, for the same reason (forgot which ones).

I say rather than change the rankings of separate messageboards, list the markets in the states section, & the market in a sub-section of the state's messageboard. It would be a lot easier to find, & not have to change around.

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Dave, thanks for your message. I was a moderator under Doug, so I am completely familiar with the way the boards have been organized.

Please see this thread from last year about the discussion on reorganizing the structure of the boards: http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?673020-OTHER-LOCAL-MARKETS-Reorganization-Discussion.

The Top 20 has been corrected to match Nielsen's market rankings. Thanks for your patience!

Tampa/St. Pete still shows in the mobile site radio menu...