Check out the ratings for WKGR. Rock does have an audience in Palm Beach County. As Dr. Tillery noted, WBGF is not listenable in large chunks of the market. It is no wonder that its ratings are horrible. I would like to see what WBGF could do if it had a city grade signal from Jupiter to Boca.
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93.5 in Palm Beach County
- Thread starter ScottBurns
- Start date
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David Francis
Guest
I agree with you Dr. Tillery and Mr. Burns. Your points are absolutely valid and respect your insights on these boards.
I don’t want to degrade this into a “rock isn’t dead on radio argument,” an analysis which has a happened before on the boards, going in circles.
But want to note the ratings for the “alternative” WPBZ 103.1 The Buzz, never broke the 3.0s; it was always in the mid 2.0s – they were always beat by the “classic rocker” WKGR 98.7 The Gater.
We are talking two different kinds of rock here: familiar, comforting classic rock vs. unfamiliar active rock/alternative bands. The Gater is in a nice, well-worn rut where they can’t get better or worse, they have a niche and they do well, very well. For an automated, voice tracked, most jockless station, programmed nationally at the IHeart beehive, without much promotion, they’re doing great with their mid 3.0s ratings. The same argument holds for WBGG 105.9 in Miami.
But when I say “rock doesn’t work in South Florida” I am talking about the active/alternative rock hyrid of WBGF 93.5 The Bar (and even Miami’s R.I.P, WHRD 93.1 93 Rock). We all known the 93 Rock story. They’re gone, and Big 106 is still here. The Classic Rockers will always do well, because, well, they really “oldies” stations now, for us old timers. Again, its comfortable and familiar, but the new rock, doesn’t work in South Florida – which lost 94.9 WZTA Zeta, and 93 Rock. Both failed as active rockers.
And yes, I agree, with Scott, I want to really see what happens when WBGF moves their C3 7 miles east, or a Class A 40 miles east into West Palm and gets a city grade signal from Jupiter to Boca (that fringes into northern Broward at least). But how much of an affect will it have? They’ll go from 0.1/0.2, into the mid 2.0s – like the Buzz. Again, for the Bar, we are still talking 15,500 down to 4,000 watts (C3/A) vs. 100,000 (C1). I don’t see WBGF pulling 3.3 to 3.8 like the Gater, or even beat them. The Buzz didn’t with 100.000 watts behind them; so I don’t see WBGF pulling that high of a ratings spike.
Also note: The Bar, in addition to putting on a solid, on-air product, have been very, extremely aggressive in the marketing department; very ‘street.” Check out web and Facebook pages – they've done promotions not only within their local signal, but into their fringe and distant coverage areas where you can’t pick up/barely pick up the station. In fact, they gone as far south as Downtown Miami to promote the station, with one of their jocks throwing out the first pitch at a Marlins game, with “The Bar” logos flashing around on the jumbotrons.
Then, today, we have something Zeta and 93 Rock didn’t have: the web and phone apps. I don’t want to begin debating PPM vs. paper diaries, how ratings are compiled, but I want to say The Bar has the advantage to overcome their current signal issues via web streaming and phone apps. You listen to the station and the jocks mention that so-and-so is listening to us on the web; on their phone (then they promo their listening app).
To sum up: the 10th grade daughter of my neighbor (the main audience for active and alternative rock) said: “Listening to the radio is dorky. I use Spotify, Pandora, and You Tube. And if I do listen to the radio, I listen through my phone.” So, todays radio audience doesn’t use/is moving away from the use of boom boxes, home stereos, or walkmans, or even car radios. They’re using phones, and docking them into cars. And that's IF they are listening to terrestrial radio and NOT making up their own "radio station" playlists via Spotify and Pandora, etc.
With the The Bar’s fantastic and aggressive promotions, they should have already overcome their signal issues via the expansion of their signal via web streams and phone apps. They haven’t. It’s not their fault. The product is solid. The market for rock in South Florida simply isn’t there. Again, not talking about Classic Rock. That’s just how it is in South Florida. Do we need, want rock station, and is there an audience? Yes, sure there is. But not an audience that is going to break the Gater or Big’s numbers.
Final case in point: Look at those overall numbers for 104.3 The Shark. All the upheaval, the promotions, and what do they have to show for it? A 22ND place ranking with OVERALLS of 1.4 to 1.9. Infact, in the April book, they dropped from a 1.9 down to a 1.6. Can’t even break a 2.0. They are in the exact same place, ratings wize overall, when they were duping the sports programming from 790 WAXY The Ticket during the FM rebranding phase at The Ticket. And The Shark is being beat by 15th overall ranked WBGG Big 105.9 with high 2.0s up to a 3.0 (and might add, on the lookout, again, for another program director). Again, its classic rock vs. active/alternative rock, and in the case of the Shark, pure alternative rock. The Bar is an active/alternative hybrid.
Fingers crossed and hopes that The Bar’s move works, as again, good product, good promotions, and deserves an audience. But I am not as hopeful as Mr. Burns or Tillery.
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David Francis
Guest
Off the Nassau-Suffolk (Long Island) board by “Barry” . . .
“A modified application to the FCC for the new 102.3 translator in the Milford CT area which will rebroadcast WPLR, acknowledges concerns from Cox Radio that it could cause interference to WBAB. The new application proposed a reduction in power to 60 watts, and making the signal directional to the northeast. According to this proposal, Cox has no objections to this new configuration. The application was approved last month.”
. . . that I believes applies to the 93.5 situation in South Florida:
This is what needs to happen with this “secondary channel,” that is, I Heart needs to acknowledge that it is inferring, or JVC needs to express the interference concerns. A new application, I believe, needs to be filed, and propose a reduction in power, down from 179 watts, and make the signal for W228BV-FM 93.5 MHz more directional to the north.
If you look at the coverage map for W228BY-FM 93.5 MHz Miami (Revolution Radio), its very directional to the north to protect I Heart’s other property, Fort Lauderdale's (see coverage map) for W228BV-FM 93.5 MHz (The Bull), itself directional to the south to protect W228BY's northern contour.
So, at this point, it doesn’t matter if 93.5 The Bar moves/reduces its C3 7 miles east, or moves forty miles as a Class A into metro West Palm Beach, the “secondary channel” is still going to be a continued problem. W228BV-FM 93.5 MHz needs to be, if not removed (like the old WIOD 100.3 translator that was interferring with WLML Legends Radio 100.3), it needs to be made very directional to the north. And again, it is quite clear that a W228BV-FM 93.5 MHz (The Bull) is a "secondary service." A power reduction and/or "additional" directional set ups are required to protect the "primary" service, that is, JVC's 93.5 The Bar.
As for "listern complaints", JVC has gotten them and are aware. The fans are all over it and up on it. The Bar's Facebook page is rife with listeners complaining about "that blankety blank country station."
“A modified application to the FCC for the new 102.3 translator in the Milford CT area which will rebroadcast WPLR, acknowledges concerns from Cox Radio that it could cause interference to WBAB. The new application proposed a reduction in power to 60 watts, and making the signal directional to the northeast. According to this proposal, Cox has no objections to this new configuration. The application was approved last month.”
. . . that I believes applies to the 93.5 situation in South Florida:
This is what needs to happen with this “secondary channel,” that is, I Heart needs to acknowledge that it is inferring, or JVC needs to express the interference concerns. A new application, I believe, needs to be filed, and propose a reduction in power, down from 179 watts, and make the signal for W228BV-FM 93.5 MHz more directional to the north.
If you look at the coverage map for W228BY-FM 93.5 MHz Miami (Revolution Radio), its very directional to the north to protect I Heart’s other property, Fort Lauderdale's (see coverage map) for W228BV-FM 93.5 MHz (The Bull), itself directional to the south to protect W228BY's northern contour.
So, at this point, it doesn’t matter if 93.5 The Bar moves/reduces its C3 7 miles east, or moves forty miles as a Class A into metro West Palm Beach, the “secondary channel” is still going to be a continued problem. W228BV-FM 93.5 MHz needs to be, if not removed (like the old WIOD 100.3 translator that was interferring with WLML Legends Radio 100.3), it needs to be made very directional to the north. And again, it is quite clear that a W228BV-FM 93.5 MHz (The Bull) is a "secondary service." A power reduction and/or "additional" directional set ups are required to protect the "primary" service, that is, JVC's 93.5 The Bar.
As for "listern complaints", JVC has gotten them and are aware. The fans are all over it and up on it. The Bar's Facebook page is rife with listeners complaining about "that blankety blank country station."
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I read your post and looked at the maps several times and eventually pieced together what you meant.
Being "directional to" means the direction to where one sends the most amount of their signal, not the least.
The AM stations that transmit from the Everglades are all directional to the east, where the population is.
I think what you meant was directional away from.
W228BY is directional to the east, the south, and the west, but directional away from the north.
You could also say that W228BY is shielded from, shielded toward, or shielded away from the north.
If the Bar is being rammed by the Bull, the Bull must become less, not more, directional to the north,
perhaps an east-west kidney bean pattern like W284CS has to the west-northwest and east-southeast.
BTW...If the Bar ever does move into Downtown WPB, it would in effect become a new station,
as when 104.3 moved to Miami, and their format would very likely change to something totally different.
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Stations in the Everglades areas are not directional "to the east" to reach population.
WALW 590 is nulled to the north to protect 580 in Orlando and numerous stations on 590 farther north. The pattern goes to the east and west, with a sympathetic null to the south.
WWTK in Lake Placid is directional to the south, with nulls to the east and sharp nulls to the west day and night.
WSWN in Belle Glade is non-directional day and night.
The AM stations licensed to the Palm Beaches are directional because all of them were relatively late-comers to the AM band, so they have to protect stations to the north, particularly at night. So they place the transmitters to the west of the market since if they put them anywhere else, they would not cover the Palm Beach market.
For example, WFTL on 850 has to protect the senior station in Gainesville, so it is west of the market beaming most power to the east. At night, they have to also protect WABA in Puerto Rico, a station in Orizaba, México and a number of other occupants of 850. Other area stations have similarly severe protections, so they have no other place to locate their transmitters than to the west of the market.
I think you are going a bit far saying that The Gater is programmed out of some central iHeart location. The fact that they use Pemium Choice options does not detract from the fact that they have a local PD and local music logs. They integrate the Premium Choice material into the locally done format as most Premium Choice material consists of workparts that are essentially called for by the local stations and placed within their own format clocks and structure.
The point I was making is that stations try, where possible, to be directional toward their target audience while minimising their signal in other directions, in order not to interfere and to not waste signal.
Many directional stations in Miami do this very well.
Of course, when they can be located in the middle of the market and be omni-directional, that is great.
Don't you just hate WOWO's night pattern, keeping their transmitter site in the same place as when they beamed into Fort Wayne, but now sending most of their signal perpendicular to the city?
Any details?
I still find it amazing. I pick up every Miami FM better than the Bar, and I am in the Boynton-Lantana area.
According to the maps, you are getting about fifteen more db's from the Miami stations, and after the Bar moves, you will still get ten more db's from the Miami stations.
The bar is still going to be a Belle Glade / Clewiston radio station.
After they move, the Miami stations will still have about five more db's in downtown WPB than they will.
On a similar note:
A station half way between Miami and Marco Island in the middle of the Everglades is making a big to do about their upcoming signal increase,
but it looks like even after The Call finishes spending their $150K of special contributions, hardly anyone in Miami will hear them any better.
The only listeners who will ever hear the Call's new iBOC signal will be truckers crossing Tamiami Trail.
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Do you have a link about what exactly the Bar is going to do? Are they moving seven miles east, as was long rumored?
Four minutes and fifty-nine seconds of longitude.
(but for you, take five minutes!)
WBGF flipped to Scott Shannon's True Oldies Channel at midnight Jan 1. The only thing I find surprising about the move is that his network still exists as I thought he gave it up when he began working at WCBS. Nice to know it's still around.
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He did shut it down but after leaving WCBS he started it back up again a couple of months later.
I think you meant "leaving WPLJ and Cumulus". Scott continues at CBS-FM.
http://wcbsfm.cbslocal.com/show/scott-shannon/
Impressive potential coverage for WBGF.
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