Philadelphia Radio Ratings: October 2014

WPHT goes up in ratings but Julius will complain anyway.

WRFF drops out of top 10 and even below Q102. Keep up the bland personalities and bland imaging Johnny. If 104.5 actually cared even a little I think they could beat MMR outside of morning drive

Nice eagles jump for WIP too

Unregistered said:

If 104.5 actually cared even a little I think they could beat MMR outside of morning drive

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But that would require research and an airstaff. IHM doesn't do that anymore.

Thank you, PJC. Finally some numbers posted which mean something.

Notice in this article, which outlines the top stations in the "money demos," KYW is noticeably absent. Maybe KYW should change it's slogan to "I'll give you 22 seconds to get off my lawn." The only spoken word station to make it was WIP-FM. Funny thing, the article attributes that station's showing to play by play sports, which the station for a long time avoided. Even WOGL, which did well in the 6+ plus topline numbers, is out of it for the money demos (even with a playlist moved forward in time). CBS can call itself the Codger Broadcasting System.

Big surprise to those only reading 6+ numbers is how WMMR finished in the middle of the pack there but finished on top where it counts.

No one is going to surplant WBEB for a long time. WOGL is out of the money demos I believe because they have not progressed enough. They need move away from the 60s and start playing more 80s and a few 90s like WCBS. That is why WCBS 101 in NY is consistently number 1 now.

AM/FMRAINMAN said:

No one is going to surplant WBEB for a long time. WOGL is out of the money demos I believe because they have not progressed enough. They need move away from the 60s and start playing more 80s and a few 90s like WCBS. That is why WCBS 101 in NY is consistently number 1 now.

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Do you program for the audience you have or the audience you wish you had?

Do you risk alienating current listeners in the hope of attracting new listeners?

Keep in mind, the people who listen to real/true oldies, listen to radio. Those younger cohorts may be attractive to advertisers but radio is not that attractive to them. They have largely embraced new media and aren't coming back to an obsolete and inferior means of distributing content, no matter how good the content is.

So, one one hand you criticize the money demos, while on the other state (astonishingly lucidly) that radio should cultivate and dollarize to the fullest extent those that actually listen to radio. Further, as iHeart noted, they are seeing success with selling less on demos as quantified by ratings and more on an ROI approach.

All the data matters, Fred, not just the selective pieces that support your never ending mantra that radio is dead.

One key piece is aggregrate revenue, and it is going UP!

umfan said:

One key piece is aggregrate revenue, and it is going UP!

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In what alternate universe?

First off, I did not say radio is dead. I said it is dying.

And apparently you are referring to another thread in another section of this website about IHeart's "multi-platform" strategy, in which they bundle radio with other properties to get spots on the log.

IMHO: Radio stations should hold onto the whatever audiences they have because building a new one today is damn near impossible, especially an audience composed of younger people.

Interesting WOGL is rated high, and whenever I tune in I hear plenty of local spots. So maybe there are enough in the demo those advertisers want to make it worth it for them to buy time on 98.1.

Or maybe some advertisers are starting to figure it out that if Cable TV's advertisers can sell and make money having that same Babyboomer Demo why not Radio. Boomers have money to spend and are loyal radio listeners whereas the younger groups are not.

The delivery platform might make a difference. Radio station's online simulcasts of their OTA broadcasts do have different spots, so they are selling the online spot breaks too and maybe get a younger demo there. No facts to back any of this, just speculating.

MikefromDelaware said:

Interesting WOGL is rated high, and whenever I tune in I hear plenty of local spots.

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Sure, but did those advertisers buy WOGL or did they buy a cluster or package of stations and other "platforms?" Delmarva gets spots on WDEL by giving them away (free or cheap) to advertisers who buy WSTW and WXCY. Ask local ad buyers who they are pitched. And think about how WILM had so few spots as a stand-alone but more of an audience than it does now as part of a cluster.

Baby Boomers may have money but at a certain point in life, their focus is about saving money for retirement. If they stop working at 65 or 70, will it last until 80 or 90? Notice those ads on oldies TV are mostly healthcare related (plus a few on how to sue your doctor). People over 50 have already developed brand loyalties, they are no longer raising families and they have already stocked up on most of the durable goods they need. Not much opportunity for "return on investment." Look at your own buying habits.

FredLeonard said:

People over 50 have already developed brand loyalties.

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Although many of them have abandoned those, at least at the supermarket, and now buy store brands only, further reducing their own usefulness to advertisers. Chances are they remain brand-loyal to their supermarket; again, a negative in the eyes of Madison Ave.

Salespeople get creative with spot buys. Let's say an advertiser agrees to $200 for a spot. The station's salesperson will then urge the client to take $5 off of the main station price and get an equal one on the stream, for the same $5. That way, to corporate, the stream looks like its generating revenue, and the client feels like they're getting a little bonus for the same amount of money.

Same goes with cluster buys. Rates are often divided up by ratings. The big rated stations have the high rates, and the low rated stations are the throwaway rates, but they all add up to whatever the client was willing to spend. Lots of ways for salespeople to be creative. Oh, and don't forget the 5am to 6am spots for a couple of bucks. It's defined as "morning drive" but is essentially of little value. So the salesperson sells a $200 spot in 6a-10a and a $5 spot in 5a-6a. Net effect, the client gets two 5a-10a spots for $205 total, or $102.50 each.

HGN2001 said:

Salespeople get creative with spot buys. Let's say an advertiser agrees to $200 for a spot. The station's salesperson will then urge the client to take $5 off of the main station price and get an equal one on the stream, for the same $5. That way, to corporate, the stream looks like its generating revenue, and the client feels like they're getting a little bonus for the same amount of money.

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I don't know if CBS works that way. Interactive has its own sales force. In fact, they have a couple of sales forces dedicated to selling streams and web sites, both national and local. Plus any spillover from either radio or TV.

Good point Fred, as I'm 63, I am definitely more focused on saving as much as possible for retirement. I did buy a new car last year, but I've driven Ford's for years and have had excellent results with Fords, so yep I did buy another Ford. I did go and look at Chevy's though, but in the end I stuck with what I know. So you're right, advertisers probably won't make many if any sales by aiming their sights at me.

Interesting strategies in selling radio and the online version, thank you all for further insight.

MikefromDelaware said:

Good point Fred, as I'm 63, I am definitely more focused on saving as much as possible for retirement. I did buy a new car last year, but I've driven Ford's for years and have had excellent results with Fords, so yep I did buy another Ford. I did go and look at Chevy's though, but in the end I stuck with what I know. So you're right, advertisers probably won't make many if any sales by aiming their sights at me.

Interesting strategies in selling radio and the online version, thank you all for further insight.

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Interesting. Sounds like any of the brands from outside the "Big 3" were not in what marketers call your consideration set.

The other piece of the puzzle here is how many major advertisers have abandoned radio or greatly curtailed its share of their media mix. It's not just that advertisers aren't buying radio to reach old people; they are not buying radio much, if at all.