And the translators just keep on comin'

W279CO-FM 103.7 Eatonville just signed on. Their translating 1140 WRMQ. Their website now just calls themselves Rejoice 103.7 with no mention of 1140 at all, how sad. Now Orlando has 2 FM Gospel translators. I'm sure now those who were in the fringe of the translator 103.7 The Rock (WPOZ HD-4) out of Clermont are thrilled to lose their station again.
W246BT-FM 97.1 Clermont which I believe was once a Reach-FM translator is now translating 740 WYGM via WJRR HD-2. Does anyone think this would help the 0.4 share they had in the last book?

In the case of 1140, I think it’s great to see small, independent AM operators improve their quality somewhat to survive. Although it’s a small translator, it covers a lot of the demographic they were originally serving with their AM. From what I am hearing right now, the AM and Translator are both identifying as the AM & FM, unllike iHeartMedia who only identifies their leased 102.5 Translator for WFLF-AM as WMGF-HD2.

As stated in some of my previous posts, iHeartMedia continues to gobble up Translators to rebroadcast HD Channels and circumvent ownership caps with in the market.

The Christian Rock Translator must have not been doing too well for such a drastic flip to the other side of the format spectrum. Maybe the audience just wasn’t there to justify the format, or research wasn’t done to see if there was a market for hard Christian Rock. It sure wasn’t a lack of marketing, as they had a consistent and agressive outdoor media campaign.

iHeartMedia has another application in Orlando on 97.1 with W246BO they purchased from Reach, which I believe is the reason they directionalized the Winter Garden Translator.

They also bought the 96.9 which was near Downtown Orlando from Radio Assist to shut it off so they could create a Fill-In Translator and move that one in.

Here’s that app:

http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=146621

They also got the 96.9 which was near Downtown Orlando from Radio Assist as well to shut it off so they could create a Fill-In Translator and move that one in. They also own the 97.1 Kissimmee which was purchased from Radio Assist to cover the south.

I think the issue these days is that UNLESS everything & I do mean EVERYTHING is an OVERNIGHT SUCCESS it is automatically deemed a FAILURE

FrankF said:

W279CO-FM 103.7 Eatonville just signed on. Their translating 1140 WRMQ. Their website now just calls themselves Rejoice 103.7 with no mention of 1140 at all, how sad. Now Orlando has 2 FM Gospel translators. I'm sure now those who were in the fringe of the translator 103.7 The Rock (WPOZ HD-4) out of Clermont are thrilled to lose their station again.
W246BT-FM 97.1 Clermont which I believe was once a Reach-FM translator is now translating 740 WYGM via WJRR HD-2. Does anyone think this would help the 0.4 share they had in the last book?

Click to expand...

Translators do not have -FM in their callsign....just the format of ZyyyXX where Z is W or K then the 3 digit channel number (88.1 is channel 201 with 107.9 being 300) and two letters after the channel number.

Yep, gotta love those xlators (not!).

ContinuousWave said:

Translators do not have -FM in their callsign....just the format of ZyyyXX where Z is W or K then the 3 digit channel number (88.1 is channel 201 with 107.9 being 300) and two letters after the channel number.

Yep, gotta love those xlators (not!).

Click to expand...

Who under 60 actually listens to gospel music? I'm 60 and every time I'm in Orlando I tune straight to 95.9 or (formerly) 106.3 for Christian Hip-hop and Christian rock. My adopted daughter reports no reception on either from her home in St. Cloud - I guess I fix them up with a deep fringe tuner and FM antenna next time I am down there, because HD radios are getting hard to find! I don't know what I can do to help her in her car - but 95.9 does seem to reach the Disney area where they go a lot. I always set my rental car to 95.9 and leave it there when I turn the car in.

??? And what did my post have to do with under 60s listening to gospel?? I was making a comment about translators (in a lot of areas, they are overloading the band).

rbrucecarter5 said:

Who under 60 actually listens to gospel music? .

Click to expand...

I think if you check out concerts with Ty Tribbett, Mary Mary, Lecrae, or Detrick Haddon, you see them packed with 20, 30 & 40 year olds. Just a few weeks ago Israel Houghton & New Breed were at Disney, and the show was packed, but not many 60+ in that crowd. Just saying.

EBFeaster said:

I think if you check out concerts with Ty Tribbett, Mary Mary, Lecrae, or Detrick Haddon, you see them packed with 20, 30 & 40 year olds. Just a few weeks ago Israel Houghton & New Breed were at Disney, and the show was packed, but not many 60+ in that crowd. Just saying.

Click to expand...

The Gospel Artists you just mentioned are the younger end of the Gospel Urban/R&B Genre. They tend to skew younger.

There are hundreds of more artists other than those like the Traditional Gospel Artists such as Mississippi Mass Choir, Mighty Clouds Of Joy, Lee Williams, and more that older folks enjoy listening to.

Programming a Black Gospel Format isn't just about grabbing the Top 30 Songs on the Billboard BDS Gospel Chart and rotating them every couple of hours like you would on a CHR station.

Israel is a Crossover Christian Artist. Disney's Night of Joy is targeted towards the White and Christian Demographic. Thus the reason you don't see many true Black Gospel Acts ever booked for that event each year.

There's just not much money in that Demographic unless it's a high African American population in markets such as Atlanta and DC.

ContinuousWave said:

??? And what did my post have to do with under 60s listening to gospel?? I was making a comment about translators (in a lot of areas, they are overloading the band).

Click to expand...

I always said give the Government the Time and Motive and they'll make the FM Band "as bad" if not "worse" than the AM Band for an "as bad as it can possibly get" scenario I will submit 93.7 WOGK in Ocala at 100,000 watts and Neighboring Channel 93.5 W228CT here in Daytona at 200 or 300 watts...right in the path of a 100,000 FM ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT FCC!!! Who did not know there was going to be issues??? On 93.3 or 92.9 there are going to be issues as well.

Orlando translator update courtesy of Radio Insight. This is getting ridiculous.
http://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/90509/fcc-applications-1016-more-translators-for-orlando/

ROFL too funny. I guess you can forget about dxing in Orlando unless you have a really good radio.......

JPlainJohn said:

I always said give the Government the Time and Motive and they'll make the FM Band "as bad" if not "worse" than the AM Band for an "as bad as it can possibly get" scenario I will submit 93.7 WOGK in Ocala at 100,000 watts and Neighboring Channel 93.5 W228CT here in Daytona at 200 or 300 watts...right in the path of a 100,000 FM ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT FCC!!! Who did not know there was going to be issues??? On 93.3 or 92.9 there are going to be issues as well.

Click to expand...

The engineers and lawyers who file these applications are the idiots...a similar filing happened in Beaumont, TX...E String out of San Antonio filed for and got a 97.1 translator...yet KTHT (a 2000ft rimshot NE of Houston) throws a STRONG signal over the BPT market..BUT according to the computer models, the 1mV/60dbU contour only makes it only over half of the area...well, we all know those are 50/50 predictions and in this case,, is totally wrong...the KTHT signal is strong enough to be heard on tabletop and portable radios..so much outrage over possible interference (however, in reality, the translator would get clobbered by the 100KW signal unless you were within visual sight of the translator tower) caused E String to file an app to change freq...this time (and this is a good one) 1 channel away from a 2000 ft Class C 25miles to the west licensed to Beaumont...the claim is the interference overlap would take place in an area where no population lives...Looked at the maps that were submitted and at the LOW ERP they proposed, their signal would not be heard in ANY populated area!!

E String even said they had built the 97.1 signal and tested it (colocated on an AM tower; KZZB) Funny, there is NO FM antenna or coax, etc on the KZZB towers (2 of them...KZZB is a Class B 1KW with a poor ground systems and barely covers the COL at night...when it used to cover the entire MSA about 30x30x30 miles in a triangle shape before the ground system was torn up by a previous owner and never has been fixed)...

The FCC can only go on what is filed....if the 1mV contours dont overlap on paper, they usually will grant the app (which was the case in the 97.1 translator.....though whats on paper is not 100% correct in the real world)

Question: Do the FCC engineers validate the models by applying the inputs into the model themselves, or is just the output of the model submitted with the application accepted at face value? I mean this isn't like climate or something Mother Nature produces which would be hard to model (I understand that atmospherics and the like can play a role, but for day to day it should be standard), so unless the model is being maniuplated, these kinds of issues should not be happening.

Since it clearly is happening, it's fair to ask if these applications are getting anymore than a cursory review or if there is any engineering review as part of the process. The FCC should have enough staff to do this right. It's not like they need to adjudicate thousands of applications a day.

I think that the "I hate gubmint" folks have seen to it that funding levels for the increasing workload at the FCC have NOT increased, proportionate to the demand. "Cuz that would be "bigger gobmintm, dagnabbit!" And there's probably not enough people on the FCC staff who fully understand the nuance of signal propagation, after old time engineers who were active when broadcasting tackled (and stumbled) over its previous technical issues have retired. I think too many people think that flat signal maps are accurate real-world projections, or they don't care when interference issues arise that the maps didn't predict. And thus the jammed FM dial that's just going to get worse - all over the country!

The crowded dial is happening everywhere - and it's especially aggravating where I live near the Canadian border, when US-based licensees just get carte blanche to plot their repeaters and new LPFM request every frequency that already have a powerful Canadian station on it. There's no cross-border signal protection anymore, just to add to the 'land grab' that's going on with FM spectrum. I've found that a 250 translator can cause interference for a lot further than ten miles, when you live in a hilly terrain, or near salt water.

Maybe this is what a "free marketplace" looks and sounds like - not a marketplace of ideas, as Thomas Jefferson talked about, but a market-based free-for-all for whomever can patiently play the system and get in. Or else we might see the dozen or so corporate broadcasters get even more of their way with the Commissioners in telling them how to set FCC policy, and allow them to slip through even more loopholes, and control even more of the spectrum and lock out any new players to over the air broadcasting. Otherwise, I think if the FCC were allowed to set policy without crybaby corporate broadcasters getting their congressmen to intervene (see the AM power increase arguments) - and if the FCC were allowed to mandate the standards for receivers, and if the regulations guaranteed room for more players without destroying the spectrum for people trying to listen for more than a few miles in a car -- then perhaps radio broadcasting would have a brighter future than it does now. The big licensees have no incentive anymore to provide room for specialized programming, to serve more than one slice of the population, or to work with organizations who want access to the airwaves. I just wish there was a more orderly way to introduce more signals. I think starting with an expanded dial, and reserving portions of that spectrum for particular types of broadcasters (like an LPFM-only portion of a larger FM dial), would be a great start.

Goldilocks94941 said:

WALL OF TEXT AND ASSUMPTIONS

Click to expand...

Wow, just imagine how insightful you'd be with some solid facts sourced to anything!

Soap box time. Figured instead of starting a new thread, I'd bring this one back up because it's translator related. Couldn't help but notice but WYGM 740 the game is no more. What I mean by that is they are now 96.9 the game courtesy of a 250 watt translator cheap channel picked up, W245CL. Don't get me wrong, they are still on 740, but aside from the legal ID there's no mention of 740 at all, just 96.9 the game, even on their website. This is similar to what cheap channel does with sister station 540 WFLF, no mention of the 50,000 AM call numbers, just the 250 watt translator they lease at 102.5. IMHO I think it's sad that they all but abandoned their original station. Why can't they tell the listeners everyplace on the dial they're located? I've looked at 96.9's coverage map. Do they not want any listeners outside of it? If someone who's hearing the station for the first time and only knows about the translator drives out of that coverage area they are not likely to be a regular listener. But if they knew there where other ways to pick the station up over the air, like a 50,000 watt AM that has more coverage area (not to mention 101.1 HD2) they may switch over to one of them and continue listening. I just do not see why it's such a problem. WPOZ (although not on AM) doesn't seem to have a problem telling their listeners everyplace you can hear their different FM HD streams (and translators). Somehow I don't think this move is really going to gain much more listeners. When WFLF went (for all intense purposes) FM their ratings didn't go up that much. And besides, we still have 4 sports stations in Orlando (although 2 of them don't buy the book). I don't see WYGM going above a 1 share with this and beating WDBO. But if they do I guess we'll see ESPN 107.3 going up. One final thought, if cheap channel does not like their AM's anymore, put them up for sale. See if there's any interested buyers. What have you got to lose? Why pay the electric bill for something you don't like.

BTW I know it's I Heart Media now, but polish a turd, it's still a turd. They will always be cheap channel.

FrankF said:

Soap box time. Figured instead of starting a new thread, I'd bring this one back up because it's translator related. Couldn't help but notice but WYGM 740 the game is no more. What I mean by that is they are now 96.9 the game courtesy of a 250 watt translator cheap channel picked up, W245CL. Don't get me wrong, they are still on 740, but aside from the legal ID there's no mention of 740 at all, just 96.9 the game, even on their website. This is similar to what cheap channel does with sister station 540 WFLF, no mention of the 50,000 AM call numbers, just the 250 watt translator they lease at 102.5. IMHO I think it's sad that they all but abandoned their original station. Why can't they tell the listeners everyplace on the dial they're located? I've looked at 96.9's coverage map. Do they not want any listeners outside of it? If someone who's hearing the station for the first time and only knows about the translator drives out of that coverage area they are not likely to be a regular listener. But if they knew there where other ways to pick the station up over the air, like a 50,000 watt AM that has more coverage area (not to mention 101.1 HD2) they may switch over to one of them and continue listening. I just do not see why it's such a problem. WPOZ (although not on AM) doesn't seem to have a problem telling their listeners everyplace you can hear their different FM HD streams (and translators). Somehow I don't think this move is really going to gain much more listeners. When WFLF went (for all intense purposes) FM their ratings didn't go up that much. And besides, we still have 4 sports stations in Orlando (although 2 of them don't buy the book). I don't see WYGM going above a 1 share with this and beating WDBO. But if they do I guess we'll see ESPN 107.3 going up. One final thought, if cheap channel does not like their AM's anymore, put them up for sale. See if there's any interested buyers. What have you got to lose? Why pay the electric bill for something you don't like.

BTW I know it's I Heart Media now, but polish a turd, it's still a turd. They will always be cheap channel.

Click to expand...

I totally agree with you.

I was listening to it out in Maitland and it was cutting up inside their 60dBu. Luckily I know they are on 740 and changed over.

Unfortunately the average listener is not that diligent.

FrankF said:

Soap box time. Figured instead of starting a new thread, I'd bring this one back up because it's translator related. Couldn't help but notice but WYGM 740 the game is no more. What I mean by that is they are now 96.9 the game courtesy of a 250 watt translator cheap channel picked up, W245CL. Don't get me wrong, they are still on 740, but aside from the legal ID there's no mention of 740 at all, just 96.9 the game, even on their website. This is similar to what cheap channel does with sister station 540 WFLF, no mention of the 50,000 AM call numbers, just the 250 watt translator they lease at 102.5. IMHO I think it's sad that they all but abandoned their original station. Why can't they tell the listeners everyplace on the dial they're located? I've looked at 96.9's coverage map. Do they not want any listeners outside of it? If someone who's hearing the station for the first time and only knows about the translator drives out of that coverage area they are not likely to be a regular listener. But if they knew there where other ways to pick the station up over the air, like a 50,000 watt AM that has more coverage area (not to mention 101.1 HD2) they may switch over to one of them and continue listening. I just do not see why it's such a problem. WPOZ (although not on AM) doesn't seem to have a problem telling their listeners everyplace you can hear their different FM HD streams (and translators). Somehow I don't think this move is really going to gain much more listeners. When WFLF went (for all intense purposes) FM their ratings didn't go up that much. And besides, we still have 4 sports stations in Orlando (although 2 of them don't buy the book). I don't see WYGM going above a 1 share with this and beating WDBO. But if they do I guess we'll see ESPN 107.3 going up. One final thought, if cheap channel does not like their AM's anymore, put them up for sale. See if there's any interested buyers. What have you got to lose? Why pay the electric bill for something you don't like.

BTW I know it's I Heart Media now, but polish a turd, it's still a turd. They will always be cheap channel.

Click to expand...

The AM is still there as it the only way to have the translator. Still probably more listeners on the AM anyway.

ok walters said:

The AM is still there as it the only way to have the translator. Still probably more listeners on the AM anyway.

Click to expand...

Actually the AM is not needed as it is a rebroadcast of WJRR HD2.

jimmydean said:

Actually the AM is not needed as it is a rebroadcast of WJRR HD2.

Click to expand...

Correct. The translator is licensed as a "fill-in" translator for WJRR HD 1 which means it is also a fill-in translator for any of the sub-channels including WJRR HD 2. The translator is indirectly re-broadcasting WYGM-AM and is not technically licensed as a WYGM-AM translator.