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Radio is Dead (and not just AM)

landtuna

landtuna

Walk of Fame Participant
I took a trip yesterday in my Lexicon-equipped Hyundai Genesis to L.A. and back from Phoenix. A 13-hour turnaround for the purpose of retrieving a particular dog. I-10 from Phoenix metro westward to the little community of Baldwin Park, CA. Along the way I was constantly searching for anything of interest on both AM and FM (and even tried HD-2). It was an abject failure.

Phoenix, of course, has a plethora of radio stations but the only ones without static and all manner of interference are the FM's. About 50 miles west of Buckeye the last FM dies (KOOL). Their HD-2 signal was good for about half that distance.

Through Quartzsite, through Blythe and Palm Springs (and various Coachella Valley communities I got a smattering of FM's but virtually no AM's that were listenable. This is late morning on a Sunday. No HD-2's at all. Once in the vicinity of the big racetrack that used to be called Ontario the FM's began coming in again but most were subject to drop-out and fade. Now I understand the Lexicon may not be the most sensitive radio received on the planet but still, we were in the heart of a very large metro area and although I don't know the location of the various stations I was passing I have to assume there were some. 25 miles or so past Ontario I picked up KRTH very weakly but it got stronger as I headed west. It was one of the only FM's I could understand and there was nothing but buzz on the AM band. Still no HD-2's.

As I neared Baldwin Park I was searching for what once were some blowtorch AM's (remembering I could get a couple of those (KFI?) even in AZ when the weather was right - but nada. I finally picked up a very faint KFI signal but it wasn't really listenable. I thought the dial would be loaded with SoCal radio but was very surprised to hear....virtually nothing.

Just in case I tried the same searches on the way back to Phoenix thinking that perhaps the pattern of the car itself would either aid or defeat the stations I had picked up. Nope. Virtually the same identical results.

Sure glad I had my flash drive with a few albums on it. No reception problems at all. :cool:
 
And just think: as cell reception and bandwidth continues to improve along the nation's highways and byways (the networks place a very heavy priority on the Interstate system with the U.S. highways next in line), and as more and more vehicles come with built-in connectivity direct to the dashboard, people will have everything in the cloud, pure-play streaming, independent streaming and whatever else the future holds right at their fingertips. Traditional radio has no answer for it because they've been fighting the future instead of embracing it for the past twenty years.
 
JoshTheRadioDude said:
And just think: as cell reception and bandwidth continues to improve along the nation's highways and byways (the networks place a very heavy priority on the Interstate system with the U.S. highways next in line), and as more and more vehicles come with built-in connectivity direct to the dashboard, people will have everything in the cloud, pure-play streaming, independent streaming and whatever else the future holds right at their fingertips. Traditional radio has no answer for it because they've been fighting the future instead of embracing it for the past twenty years.
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In their flying Jetson cars. Wheeee!
 
First of all, how many people regularly have your experience? Other than truck-drivers, not many.

Those who do it regularly swear by Sirius. Because you aren't dependent on any towers, cell or radio.

But yeah, obviously there are limitations in radio transmissions. I drove from LA to Vegas once. Swore I'd never do it again, and so far have kept to my pledge. It was a fascinating drive in the context of the history of all those who'd done it in the 40s and 50s. Saw the World's Largest Thermometer, and then moved on. I'm just thankful I don't live out there.
 
landtuna said:
I took a trip yesterday in my Lexicon-equipped Hyundai Genesis to L.A. and back from Phoenix.
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Based on what you describe in your post, that is one hell of a horrible radio.

Phoenix, of course, has a plethora of radio stations but the only ones without static and all manner of interference are the FM's. About 50 miles west of Buckeye the last FM dies (KOOL). Their HD-2 signal was good for about half that distance.
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I use any of 4 cars in the family to drive from Glendale (the CA one) to Prescott, and my experience is that the HD2 on the South Mountain FM lasts right up to the hills to the east of Quartzite. And that is the same on a BMW, a VW, a Lexus and a KIA.

Through Quartzsite, through Blythe and Palm Springs (and various Coachella Valley communities I got a smattering of FM's but virtually no AM's that were listenable.
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On AM, daytime, I can nearly always (unless there is monsoon static) get KFI from around Desert Center all the way to LA, although in the Coachella Valley the noise levels make it hard. In the Coachella Valley, we have some of the worst ground conductivity in the US, but there are over 20 very good FM signals. In the Quartzite to Chiriaco Summit area, not only are the Lake Havasu area stations audible, but many of the Mexicali stations come in too along with the ones from the Imperial Valley.

This is late morning on a Sunday. No HD-2's at all. Once in the vicinity of the big racetrack that used to be called Ontario the FM's began coming in again but most were subject to drop-out and fade.
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At Ontario, every one of the Mt Wilson LA stations has a city grade signal, and a half dozen of the Inland Empire signals are 70 dbu or greater. At Ontario, on even a mediocre radio you should have about 25 strong signals.

Now I understand the Lexicon may not be the most sensitive radio received on the planet
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From what you describe, it sounds like a very, very, miserable radio or a radio that is just using the stub of the cable that goes to the antenna but which has become disconnected from that antenna.

I don't know the location of the various stations I was passing I have to assume there were some. 25 miles or so past Ontario I picked up KRTH very weakly but it got stronger as I headed west. It was one of the only FM's I could understand and there was nothing but buzz on the AM band. Still no HD-2's.
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The Mt Wilson HD2's are very usable on FM from Calimesa on down the hill to Redlands... that whole area is line of sight with the mountain, which is three times as high over LA as South Mountain is over Phoenix... and many of the stations are grandfathered at superpower levels. In fact, all the Mt Wilson LA signals show very well in the Inland Empire ratings, as the stations are local-grade in virutually all of that market.

As I neared Baldwin Park I was searching for what once were some blowtorch AM's (remembering I could get a couple of those (KFI?) even in AZ when the weather was right - but nada. I finally picked up a very faint KFI signal but it wasn't really listenable.
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In Baldwin park, there are quite a few AMs with blowtorch AM signals from transmitters not more than 10 to 15 miles away. Again, this sounds like the car radio was not connected to the antenna. All the Class B FMs and a bunch of the Class A's are putting over 70 dbu over Baldwin Park.
 
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I don't drive cross country that often but I did recently - the first time in several years. In many locations I found what LT describes. But everywhere, it had become annoyingly difficult to find anything on AM. Why? IBOC hash. Hit scan and it keeps stopping for hash. Fortunately, I had my smartphone.
 
FredLeonard said:
I don't drive cross country that often but I did recently - the first time in several years. In many locations I found what LT describes. But everywhere, it had become annoyingly difficult to find anything on AM. Why? IBOC hash. Hit scan and it keeps stopping for hash. Fortunately, I had my smartphone.
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Are there REALLY that many AM's running IBOC? Drive through Utah and you'll find exactly ONE station (KSL-1160).
I often wonder if much of what people call "IBOC" noise is really just noise, period. (My next door neighbor's stove makes a huge "IBOC-like" whine across much of the MW Band. There's a Plasma TV in our building that often takes care of any urge to FM DX, since it blasts everything from 60 to 200 MHz.)
 
You know it's IBOC if it occurs adjacent to an AM station.

Interference tends to cover a broader swath of the band. And you don't have many plasma TV's on interstate highways.
 
TheBigA said:
First of all, how many people regularly have your experience? Other than truck-drivers, not many.

Those who do it regularly swear by Sirius. Because you aren't dependent on any towers, cell or radio.
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Judging by the number of cars I passed, and who passed me, there are tens of thousands of people who do that drive. Going and coming I was never out of sight of another vehicle. Enjoyable cross-country drives are evidently a thing of the past.

I have Sirius/XM in the car but don't subscribe. I prefer my own library to sat radio.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Based on what you describe in your post, that is one hell of a horrible radio.
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I don't seem to have any difficulty when driving around Phoenix or Tucson. I can receive some Tucson FM's not more than 10 miles south of the southern border of Phoenix metro (about 100 miles from the Tucson transmitters). I only get about half that distance going west on I-10 and the reason might be the difference in elevation between Tucson (3,300 ft + HAAT) and South Mountain (2,690 ft + HAAT) and the mountains in between. I'm not sure how many or which FM's have their transmitters on Mt. Bigelow and that is around 9,000 ft and must make a difference. Going east from CA into Prescott you rise in elevation pretty quickly and there is much less domestic interference once you get across the river.

The Genny has a "shark fin" antenna and it seems to make a significant difference in which end of the car is facing or away from the transmitter (not locally but at distance). Also, truck traffic was very heavy and seemed to impact reception at times.
 
FredLeonard said:
You know it's IBOC if it occurs adjacent to an AM station.

Interference tends to cover a broader swath of the band. And you don't have many plasma TV's on interstate highways.
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You will also hear low-level RFI when it is "assisted" by a little bit of signal that helps bring it up out of the noise. So, sideband audio from an AM station can make the noise more noticeable when you tune next to a standard AM signal.
I still wonder how many AM's are running IBOC with enough power to make radios lock to them "all over" the band. Anybody know if the "HD Radio" website list is really up to date?

As for the Plasma TV's, there are plenty of them on the interstate.....they just go by the names "Power Line" and ""Street Light".
 
JoshTheRadioDude said:
Traditional radio has no answer for it because they've been fighting the future instead of embracing it for the past twenty years.
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I have long said that radio is the 20th century medium in the 21st century.

I wouldn't even think about taking a long trip (or even a short one, for that matter) without taking some music with me, whether it is CDs for the CD player, or we plug the wife's ipad into our auxiliary jack and listen to music that she has downloaded, or find some remaining cool station that is still out there streaming somewhere.
 
I think what the OP is describing has to do with the radio or antenna. I have two Hyundai's, a 2010 Santa Fe and a 2011 Tucson both equipped with standard AM/FM/XM radios. The XM mode works fine. The AM not very good but not surprising because of the short length of antenna. What is surprising is how bad FM reception is in both cars but especially on the Tucson. I have been doing some research via Google and apparently a lot of Hyundai owners are having the same problem, especially those who have the antenna imbedded in tinted window glass on certain models. Others have said that the antenna preamp may be defective or not being powered at all. Comparing reception to my F150 which has a traditional 30" rod antenna the Hyundai reception range is about 2/3 the distance at best.
 
njtom said:
I have been doing some research via Google and apparently a lot of Hyundai owners are having the same problem, especially those who have the antenna imbedded in tinted window glass on certain models.
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Especially those with metallic tint.
 
Auto manufacturers (abetted by car radio manufacturers) have been doing a lot to hinder reception - or at least not help it much - for 50 years, at least. In the 60s, when broadcast radio was about the only game in town (8-track just getting started), GM came up with the brilliant idea of embedding antennas in windshields. Why? Somebody decided that people thought antennas were ugly. This was before most of today's hash (outside of thunderstorms). These antennas started screwing things up. Reception is OK until you make a right or left turn and then it's terrible.

Then auto makers were indifferent to noise from the engine. Great reception, as long the engine wasn't running. And the car radio manufactures, in ways engineering-types have explained here in the past, did all sorts of things to save a few pennies and completely degrade reception.

If it hadn't been going on so long, one would almost think that the car companies were deliberately trying to promote the sale and use of "new media" dashboard units they promote so heavily.
 
I remember when I was a kid, back in the early '70s, car radios could pick up AM stations from two hours away (in the daytime!). It seems like the only time the signal dropped out was whenever we drove under an interstate overpass, and that was, of course, only momentary. I remember the signal getting a little louder whenever we were near the local radio station, which had its tower right there on-site.

The real problem, as I see it, with external antennae is that it is not recommended that you drive through a car wash in a car that has one. I have, but never had an issue with it. (If your car has a retractable antenna, that is not even an issue.) On the other hand, I have had car antennae break off just by driving under a low-hanging tree limb which snapped it off!
 
C. Crane used to offer a car radio antenna designed to pick up weaker AM signals - no more. I guess people weren't buying them. They now have one indoor AM antenna and a couple of signal boosters. AM is dying.
 
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