Q107

SirRoxalot · Sep 18, 2014

Q107 bangs into WNY - especially the northern burbs - like a local in the car. They've shifted their Classic Rock format to include more '80s and '90s music lately, and it appears to be having an effect with our neighbors to the north. Tom Taylor observes the latest PPM results:

"Corus-owned Q107/CILQ is #1 with men 25-54 by virtue of an 11.1, up from a 9.3."

Here, we've got 97-Rock and The Edge bumping heads over AC/DC and Zeppelin, although one is supposed to be Classic Rock, and the other is supposed to be Active Rock. 97-Rock has had its ups and downs lately, and the demos seem to be leaning more and more heavily toward the upper end. So, here's the question:

Will 97-Rock pay attention to what's going on in Toronto, and start shifting it's music focus toward a younger audience? Assuming, of course, that corporate let's them have that much leeway...

TheBigA · Sep 18, 2014

SirRoxalot said:
Will 97-Rock pay attention to what's going on in Toronto, and start shifting it's music focus toward a younger audience? Assuming, of course, that corporate let's them have that much leeway.

Two words: Nash and Cash. Nothing else matters. If Buffalo is meeting their numbers, how they do it is up to the local folks.

If they don't, expect the Buffalo debut of Nash.

tbolt909 · Sep 19, 2014

Time is rolling on. 1984 was 30 years ago.
The average idiot that listens to a Classic Rock station thinks that R.E.M.
Nirvana and Dave Matthews are NEW artists(if they even know them).

News Talk and Classic Rock stations will stay the course until they go
off the cliff to oblivion...

JustPastBuffalo · Sep 19, 2014

...and there are many Men 18-34 whose perspective of the Doors, Beatles, Deep Purple and Zep is "new" music. Why? Because it's iconic... and because they haven't heard it for 40 years. You and I may have heard (or played) Whole Lotta Love a few hundred times, but there are more than a few kids in Cheektowaga and Tonawanda discovering it for the first time who think the song is transcendental and Led Zeppelin beats anything released in the last ten years by any other band.

Strange, eh? But true.

That duly noted, Q-107 is a solid radio station. The music and personalities complement each other. It's been part of the Toronto fabric "forever."

Sound familiar?

There are some notable takeaways from the Q-107 ratings, for sure: Toronto is a PPM market (ratings provided by BBM, a government agency), the music has been "updated" and most interesting from this poster's perspective, Q-107 runs about five stopsets per hour, none longer than two minutes. It long ago did away with the eight minute TSL killers.

tbolt909 · Sep 20, 2014

Radio has existed in its own vacuum for 20 years.
There has been a lot of great music released that doesn't make it to
Radio playlists.

When AOR became Classic Rock, it turned into "product".
Classic Rock and News Talk are not trying to grow their audiences.
They just give their base what they're conditioned to hearing.

People have unlimited listening options now.
They can discover the iconic Woodstock Era bands and quality new
music on their own terms...

SirRoxalot · Sep 20, 2014

tbolt909 said:
Radio has existed in its own vacuum for 20 years.
There has been a lot of great music released that doesn't make it to
Radio playlists.

When AOR became Classic Rock, it turned into "product".
Classic Rock and News Talk are not trying to grow their audiences.
They just give their base what they're conditioned to hearing.

People have unlimited listening options now.
They can discover the iconic Woodstock Era bands and quality new
music on their own terms...

They can, but generally - at least according to most studies - they don't. Radio is still the leader in music discovery. Even Rolling Stone admits:

“Forty-eight percent of listeners discover music via FM and AM stations, according to a new Nielsen Music 360 study of 3,000 online consumers. In second place for music discovery are friends and relatives at 10 percent, followed by YouTube at just seven percent."

Curation of content is perhaps the most important function that radio still performs. There's a big difference between "new" and "new to me". Q107 is leading a generation of listeners to discover music that's new to their ears, even if it's 25 years old. The trick is keeping the audience for older music from fleeing while you shift the demographics into a more saleable age range.

TheBigA · Sep 20, 2014

SirRoxalot said:
The trick is keeping the audience for older music from fleeing while you shift the demographics into a more saleable age range.

Typically they don't "flee," since there really is no place for them to go. The "adult hits" and "classic hits" audiences have seen songs by 50s and 60s artists disappear, and they still tend to listen, although begrudgingly. So far, most classic rock stations around the country haven't made the adjustment. Jack was intended to bridge that gap between classic rock and active rock. The big problem I see is that Cumulus has both classic hits and classic rock. A whole lot of older skewing music formats with audiences aging out of the sellable demo. Someone will have to make a decision soon.

tbolt909 · Sep 20, 2014

Was the survey of ALL people or just radio listeners?
There's a huge population that DOES NOT use radio for
Music Discovery.

TheBigA · Sep 20, 2014

tbolt909 said:
There's a huge population that DOES NOT use radio for
Music Discovery.

If you have another acceptable survey, post it here.

tbolt909 · Sep 20, 2014

Radio still thinks it's 1994 (pre-internet).
People can bypass Radio completely.

They don't have to take what Radio chooses to give them.

TheBigA · Sep 20, 2014

tbolt909 said:
Radio still thinks it's 1994 (pre-internet).
People can bypass Radio completely.

They don't have to take what Radio chooses to give them.

But as the earlier post said, they quite often do.

The survey posted wasn't from radio. So then you don't have another survey?

SirRoxalot · Sep 20, 2014

The survey was NOT of radio listeners. It was conducted earlier this year. Lots of interesting info here:

http://www.edisonresearch.com/wp-co...4-from-Edison-Research-and-Triton-Digital.pdf

SirRoxalot · Sep 20, 2014

TheBigA said:
Typically they don't "flee," since there really is no place for them to go. The "adult hits" and "classic hits" audiences have seen songs by 50s and 60s artists disappear, and they still tend to listen, although begrudgingly. So far, most classic rock stations around the country haven't made the adjustment. Jack was intended to bridge that gap between classic rock and active rock. The big problem I see is that Cumulus has both classic hits and classic rock. A whole lot of older skewing music formats with audiences aging out of the sellable demo. Someone will have to make a decision soon.

It all depends on if someone offers an alternative. That's the problem that 104.1 ran into when they made their foray into "Mix" a few years back. WJYE adjusted to pick up at least some of the people that were abandoned by WHTT, and WHTT didn't pick up enough new listeners to offset the losses. When WHTT went back to "Classic Hits", the landscaped shifted again. When WJYE shifted younger, WHTT continued to climb because there WAS a place for them to go.

Programming and counter-programming is as old as the medium. What's new is corporate thinking that they can dictate what listeners will do - without any promotion budget to make the bitter pill go down more easily. tbolt has a point about listeners seeking other audio sources as well.

Younger audiences have more time to invest and a penchant for looking for "the next thing" - just as they did with cassettes, mix tapes, CDs, and file sharing. As they get older - and busier - they tend toward the curated delivery system called "radio". As long as radio serves the audience - and advertisers want the audience that they serve - it will survive, no matter how that service is delivered.

TheBigA · Sep 20, 2014

SirRoxalot said:
Programming and counter-programming is as old as the medium. What's new is corporate thinking that they can dictate what listeners will do - without any promotion budget to make the bitter pill go down more easily.

The only corporate programming initiative now is NASH. Or NASH Icon, which is 90s country. If it's up to corporate, one of those formats will be coming to Buffalo. Otherwise it's up to the local programmers to figure it out. Personally I think Icon could work in Buffalo.

tbolt909 · Sep 20, 2014

Radio is like the Postal Service. People can still use it, but
They don't have to or need to.

It's ironic that that the older crowd that uses it more is now
less desirable. Ad agencies want the 20-35 year olds even though
they are more likely to be broke, in debt and living in their
Parents basements.
The average 40-65 year old probably has more disposable income.

The Lake was a quality niche Rock format that played music
from the Woodstock Era, 80s-90s Alternative, Bob Marley and
Some new AAA artists.
It reached a disenfranchised 25-60 year old rock audience...

TheBigA · Sep 20, 2014

tbolt909 said:
Radio is like the Postal Service. People can still use it, but
They don't have to or need to. It's ironic that that the older crowd that uses it more is now
less desirable.

Once again, I ask for a source for that. The sources I have, and they are documented authoritative sources, say that the age range for radio is the same today as it was 25 years ago. Older people are actually using radio slightly less because there are fewer formats that play what they want. And you're right...radio is an appliance. People don't even think about the fact that they're listening. But that listening gets measured. When it does, we know who they are, their age, income, education, and willingness to buy products we advertise. This isn't a hobby for us. This is how we earn a living.

tbolt909 · Sep 21, 2014

Documented Authoritative sources?
They're probably giving you data that's 20 years out of date.
That's about the last time a Classic Rock station updated
its playlist.

Element9 · Sep 21, 2014

TheBigA said:
The only corporate programming initiative now is NASH. Or NASH Icon, which is 90s country. If it's up to corporate, one of those formats will be coming to Buffalo. Otherwise it's up to the local programmers to figure it out. Personally I think Icon could work in Buffalo.

A rational argument could be made for one of the existing signals flipping to Nash Icon. But why flip? Would the Classic Rock station automatically get stronger if the Classic Hits station wasn't nibbling at the edges? Would the Classic Rock station be stronger if the Active Rock station wasn't eating from the same plate? What format would be dropped in favor of Nash or Nash Icon? No matter what station flips, a significant number of core listeners to the "old" format will be alienated and won't automatically gravitate to the survivor. Moreover those alienated listeners won't sample Nash or Nash Icon. WYRK could easily fight a Nash Icon attack by adding a few heritage cuts each hour, or establishing a specialty show late at night or in fringe time on the weekend. I don't see this happening in Buffalo. Cumulus doesn't have the stones, the heart... or the money to launch it and sustain it.

TheBigA · Sep 21, 2014

tbolt909 said:
Documented Authoritative sources?
They're probably giving you data that's 20 years out of date.

There are sociological studies being done all the time on the public's use of media.

But you'd rather stick to your unsubstantiated opinion than actually look for facts.

You're not alone. People COULD look outside their comfort zone and listen to unfamiliar music by artists they've never heard of. But that's not what they do. Instead they stick with familiar favorites that they can hear for free on the radio. So even though they have the ability to listen to anything, they choose to stick with what they know. We see it every day. The most popular channels on Sirius are the ones that duplicate OTA radio. The most popular streams are OTA stations available via apps and tunein.com. Lots of people have Pandora accounts, and quite often the songs they listen to are the ones they could also hear on the radio. You can see it in the charts that track the songs they're buying and the songs they're streaming. It's right there in front of you, if you look for it.

TheBigA · Sep 21, 2014

Element9 said:
I don't see this happening in Buffalo. Cumulus doesn't have the stones, the heart... or the money to launch it and sustain it.

You may be right, and that would explain why they didn't make the flip a few weeks ago when they did the national launch. But at some point, one of the existing formats will become too old, regardless of the ratings. It's inevitable. Time marches on.