Probably will terminate operation at the TOH ID...
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Dxing Opportunities with Disney Stations going dark at least temporarily
- Thread starter BruceNYC
- Start date
Probably will terminate operation at the TOH ID...
People are people. So 240 people (if you count all the RD O&OS) don't matter? Not to mention any supervisory people at HQ? It's all the same deal, and the key thing, as I've been saying since this was announced, is another big powerful, longtime media company is leaving the station ownership thing. And they're not done yet.
The Orlando studios are T1 linked to New York where LA also has a T1 running too (probably still there for ABC News use)....we had a T1 from the Dallas studios going to the NY TOC yet the first month of Mark and Zippy from WDW in Orlando was via ISDN Stereo...I was talking with the engineers at Orlando one day as we were preparing for a show and we were both laughing at what the phone bill was gonna be for 2 channel ISDN BRI 4 hours a day for 20 days!! (I think it ended up being over $14,000!) yet we both had T1s going to NY.....DUH!!! The music came from Dallas but Mark and Zippy did their bits from WDW; the phone bill had RD management rethink how to route the audio...myself and the Orlando guys recommended using the T1s we had....we found an empty DS0 (timeslot or voice channel) on the T1 to carry their voice to the studios in Dallas where a board op mixed them with the music and calls, etc. and fed a mix-minus via the single channel back to Orlando so the board op could queue them, etc while the main audio was stereo fed to NY for on air use. Saw the studios in 1999 while in Orlando area on vacation..DJ BB Goode, who was at the Dallas location when RD signed on, had moved to Orlando and did a show from there as well. Just about all the original RD DJs are gone now...(Kara Edwards and Susan Huber were both foxes and still are.....Kara was just out of high school but her eyes could melt anyone..Susan looked a lot like Courtney Thorne-Smith...wish I would have dated her but had been down that road before at a former employment and it did not go well! Saw her before I left Dallas at the PO we both had boxes at...and we chatted for a while..what a lady)
No, I didnt say 240 (if that is the total number..I suspect it is lower) do not matter....HQ in LA will keep what they have...that number probably wont change...BUT when RD moved their operations/sales to LA in 98, a lot of folks moved at first (paid for by Disney) and then moved back to Dallas because of the high cost of living in LA...Disney will likely hold their ESPN stations (they are being colocated at Cumulus locations where possible...the Dallas KESN is LMA'ed by Cumulus though Disney still owns it)....I am surprised they aren't switching some of the AMs to ESPN...that would make it a viable competition to CBS Sports (but its being carried by Cumulus in a lot of areas! HHHMMMM) but then in the major markets, ESPN is already on FMs (Houston and DFW both have FMs..but both are rimshots....yet cover better at night than the AMs do)
Bruce, I would LOVE to get KMKI here while it's still Disney. But, even before my local spanish 620 signed on, KTAR pretty much owned the channel. Now that the local blows out KTAR (except on rare peaks), I think my chances of KMKI are essentially none.
in Houston there, are you able at all to DX KMIK (1580) or KDIS (1110)? You'd need to try KDIS on day pattern - I think they have a lobe aimed approximately that direction, and KMIK probably daytime too although one of their smaller night lobes does go E/SE, I think.
I already posted on another board (linked above), but I'll re-list (without the details in the other post) the Disney stations I've heard here...
710 KDIS Los Angeles
910 KWDZ Salt Lake City
1110 KDIS Los Angeles
1240 KSON San Diego
1240 KALY Albuquerque
1290 KKDD San Bernardino
1310 KMKI San Francisco
1580 KMIK Phoenix
1680 KAVT Fresno
1690 KDDZ(?) Denver
KMIC is on 1590 in Houston.....though the IBOC has been off for a while, they did not open the analog audio back to 10kHz so it really sucks!!!
620 KMKI's patterns are mostly NW of Dallas/Plano..killer in OKC (even at night from what I have been told)....but go south of Dallas, you are lucky to hear KMKI 10 miles out...(gotta protect Houston's KILT on 610 though it goes mostly south from its site on the north side of Houston)...
BTW 1310 San Fran is KMKY.
On the topic of AM radio: The AM band will improve and be much easier to use as we lose some of these pointless radio stations. I think that AM could really gain back some relevancy if the entire band didn't sound like a graveyard band in metro areas.
The Cumulus relationship with Disney is not a good one. Cumulus already booted ESPN from its stations, and now ABC Radio News is going away at the end of the year.
Make no mistake about it: Disney is getting out of the towers and transmitters business. At some point, that will include TV.
I hate when people say San Fran
KMKY 1310 is Oakland btw
KMKY 1310 is Oakland btw
Pointless? Losing a format like Disney only adds to the growing irrelevance of AM as a medium. Losing stations doesn't make a band more relevant -- it does the opposite. Take a look at shortwave lately -- bands used to be crowded, now they are relatively empty.
Boombox, what do you mean by the shortwave bands used to be crowded? I'm a relative newcomer to the SWL scene, although I've been AM DXing off and on for over 20 years now. I haven't found much that interests me on SW, though, so I almost never listen. When I have tuned through, I generally have only found a few frequencies with stations on them, and almost never with more than one station on a channel at the same time, except WWV and WWVH. To me, that's not a crowded band at all, although could it have anything to do with the fact that I'm only using a small ~$40-70 or so portable with its built-in whip antenna for SWL?
To me, the ideas I get when I hear such and such a broadcast medium used to be crowded would be like every single channel stacked about like the graveyard channels are on AM on the east coast. Was SW that crowded at one time?
And, what is meant by a pileup on the amateur bands? To me, it implies each channel being so crowded with hams using it simultaneously (because every single chanel/frequency is already occupied) that it makes the aforementioned graveyard channels seem like the clears used to be, like, trying to listen on 820 or 1200 in northern Canada at midday in summer back when WBAP and WOAI were the ONLY stations in North America on those frequencies, or something like that.
Or do the ham bands ever get stacked multiple-simultaneous-QSOs-deep per frequency?
To me, the ideas I get when I hear such and such a broadcast medium used to be crowded would be like every single channel stacked about like the graveyard channels are on AM on the east coast. Was SW that crowded at one time?
And, what is meant by a pileup on the amateur bands? To me, it implies each channel being so crowded with hams using it simultaneously (because every single chanel/frequency is already occupied) that it makes the aforementioned graveyard channels seem like the clears used to be, like, trying to listen on 820 or 1200 in northern Canada at midday in summer back when WBAP and WOAI were the ONLY stations in North America on those frequencies, or something like that.
Or do the ham bands ever get stacked multiple-simultaneous-QSOs-deep per frequency?
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
I think we have a different idea of what are pointless radio stations. I would argue that the entire brokered movement on AM is cluttering the band with pointless stations. Ratings do not matter, it only matters if you have the ability to pay for air time. You buy time even if nobody listens - which pretty much describes a lot of the religious stations out there, those that are preaching from one church. As far as Disney - they were playing music on AM, something very wonderful to hear again after all the pointless talk and even more pointless sports nonsense. It was sanitized top-40 and their own home grown artists - nothing wrong with that. At least for a few years, kids could have the experience of AM top-40 music like I did growing up. It was also nice to have AM music that worked in very remote areas where FM is almost non-existent.
Boombox, what do you mean by the shortwave bands used to be crowded? I'm a relative newcomer to the SWL scene, although I've been AM DXing off and on for over 20 years now. I haven't found much that interests me on SW, though, so I almost never listen. When I have tuned through, I generally have only found a few frequencies with stations on them, and almost never with more than one station on a channel at the same time, except WWV and WWVH. To me, that's not a crowded band at all, although could it have anything to do with the fact that I'm only using a small ~$40-70 or so portable with its built-in whip antenna for SWL?
To me, the ideas I get when I hear such and such a broadcast medium used to be crowded would be like every single channel stacked about like the graveyard channels are on AM on the east coast. Was SW that crowded at one time?
And, what is meant by a pileup on the amateur bands? To me, it implies each channel being so crowded with hams using it simultaneously (because every single chanel/frequency is already occupied) that it makes the aforementioned graveyard channels seem like the clears used to be, like, trying to listen on 820 or 1200 in northern Canada at midday in summer back when WBAP and WOAI were the ONLY stations in North America on those frequencies, or something like that.
In the 1980's the 31 meter band, 25 meter band, and 19 meter bands were wall to wall signals -- in other words, every channel had one (and sometimes two) signals on it. When the 21 meter band opened up for business in the early 1980's it also was full of signals. Tuning across each of these bands during the right time of the day (afternoon for 19m and 21m, evening for 31m and 25m) was similar to tuning across the AM band at night. A signal on nearly every single channel.
In some areas of the U.S. the SW bands have more signals, but in my corner of the NW I usually hear a total of 10-15 stations on the 31 meter band on a good night. Sometimes that's the number I hear on both the 31 and 25 meter bands combined. The 49 meter band constently has maybe 15 or 20 stations during the evening, with a lot of channels being empty. It wasn't that way even 10 years ago. 41 meters sometimes is crowded with CNR1 and other Chinese stations during early morning, but even that band is different than what it was even 10 years ago.
So, no, I don't think it's your radio. If you attached a 15-20 ft hank of wire to the whip antenna, or plugged a similar length antenna to your radio's external antenna jack (if it has one) you'd probably hear a few more stations but the SW bands are practically empty compared to the way they were even 20 years ago.
I remember as recently as the winter of 2002 the 41 and 31 meter bands were vibrant with activity (every morning I used to regularly hear India behind the Inner Mongolian CNR station, Singapore, several stations in Malaysia, and other cool stuff) but the past few years they are pretty spare comparatively.
The reason I brought up SW broadcasting is because AM may (and probably will) go the same way. Stations will disappear, and soon the band during the day will be a handful of signals in major cities, and at night there will be more long-haul DX but that will be only because the band is more empty. Either way, it will not be a sign of a healthy AM band.
And like shortwave, the decline started with a couple big broadcasting organizations cutting back, and then cutting out completely... starting a trend that other companies follow. The parallels are ominous.
RE: DX pileups. A "pile up" is when a DX ham station calls CQ, and a gazillion American hams want to contact him. So they all shout out their calls, and the DX station then will repeat the call of the station he contacts next. On CW it's similar, except it's in morse code, and it all sounds very musical.
Most frequencies on the ham bands don't get stacked too deep. They usually try to make sure there already isn't somebody on the frequency when they fire up a CQ. That's why sometimes you'll hear a ham say "is this frequency in use?" before calling CQ. The channels on popular ham bands like the 20 meter band can get crowded, though, and because it's SSB they can crowd in closer together than the SW stations on the SW broadcast bands. That's when it helps to kick in the narrow filter on the radio if your radio has one, or just make up for it by listening more closely if it doesn't.
The contract between Cumulus and ABC over the news radio section is expiring and Disney/ABC has decided to do distribution on its own again....KESN in Dallas is LMAed by Cumulus and ran from their studios.....Disney has not said anything on any intentions to sell ESPN.....OR ABC TV.....they want the Sports and Production for their own projects and ABC gives them that...I am glad to see the ABC Radio News coming back on its own....but I think for now, the news and sports will be the only think Disney wants to deal with on radio....they'll just wait until Cumeless or iFartMedia goes broke and then pick and choose what they want at CHEAP prices...they already sold high...time to buy low
Their Houston 13 O&O is a top biller in the market....they arent letting it go anytime soon....nor their Chicago 7 O&O...seriously doubt Disney will dump ABC TV in the near or short time future...20-30 yrs from now maybe...IF OTA TV is still around.So if this keeps up AM going to be a wasteland soon?
What is the actual point to "Radio Disney" though? Its more or less a remote network that can't relate to listeners who would actually be interested in the format. I think it's a benefit to the band to just have some of those stations go dark.
Yeah, that ain't happenin'.
The AM horse left the stable decades ago. It's been circling the stable ever since, always within sight, but it's gradually wandering further and further away. It's certainly not as bad off as that tiny speck of a horse in the distance named Shortwave, but it's drifting off into the horizon. Just enjoy it while you can.
If the Disney stations go off the air, and the average Disney station had 8 employees, that's 8 radio jobs in your town that you'll never be able to apply for.
For someone who says they want to get into the radio business, you perhaps shouldn't be applauding the disappearance of any station, on any band.
And if you actually listened to Radio Disney, you'd know that they have had plenty of interaction with their listener base, even though they were a national network. Plenty of relating to listeners. Plenty of call ins from listeners also. More calls than some of the conservative talk hosts take in an hour, and those are national shows for the most part also.
I'd give it 10-15 more years before enough stations begin to go dark that it is noticeable as you tune across the band at night.
Right now, with FM being full, and the needs of ethnic minorities for radio service, the AM band will still have a use. The population of the US is still growing. Not everybody has a radio app on their smartphone. And there still is an issue of internet radio reception in your car (or on a bus, for that matter).
And there are also religious organizations that will pay money for stations or for brokered broadcasts even if there aren't guaranteed ratings -- look at Brother Stair and Melissa Scott on the shortwave. They probably aren't sure of the number of listeners but they have enough money to support their broadcasts because of their belief in using broadcasting as part of their mission.
That's my guess, anyway. Although I could be wrong.
I don't think that BigA was referring to selling the ABC network. He was referring to selling the steel in the sky, the O & O stations, which are the most vulnerable to the changes in the way TV is going to be watched in the future.
I'd say the reasons were exactly the opposite.
As early as the late 60's and early 70's the use of shortwave for regional / domestic service started to decline in Latin America as well as many places in Africa and Asia. As smaller towns got AM station of their own, the need for SW stations from the bigger cites was reduced.
In the places I know in Latin America, ratings started to be done in earnest around that. And in most places, it was discovered that there was very little listening to shortwave. For example, I subscribed to the major city ratings in Ecuador, and as a client was allowed to review the raw data after each survey. In the cities of Quito, Guayaquil and Cuencan, I saw not one mention of the BBC or the VOA or Radio Habana or Radio Moscow... even though they did a total of 35,000 in home coincidental interviews for those three markets.
Then, when FM began to grow in many of the countries in the early and mid 70's, radios started to be sold with AM and FM and not AM and shortwave. And gradually, the AM's with shortwave started turning the SW off and adding FM in its place.
With no local service, and no radios at retail, the listenership dried up.
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