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WOR IBOC Carrier Off For Over A Week

L

L Chanon Gade

Frequent Participant
--Not that it will make any difference there but, if they have dropped "HD" that will be a significant statement. For those interested, WOR was the first NYC HD station to go live in late 2002.

I, and a lot of others I spoke to had hopes that IBOC would improve AM's survival chances and possibly open up options for more mainstream programming.

At several points, WOR, WFAN,WABC,WNYC-a,WCBS,WINS,WADO,WQEW have used IBOC. Today only WCBS,WINS and WQEW remain.

Chan.
 
I wish WCBS-AM would turn the damn thing off. Although the signal booms in where I live the station sounds horrible on my car stereo.

I didn't realize WINS uses IBOC ... I thought they were one of the few hold-outs.
 
So few people have HD radios that benefit from this, it makes little sense to leave it on, although I understand the quality is much improved with an HD receiver.

If iBiquity would subsidize receivers into new cars, the technology might have a chance. Subchannels and better AM reception, which might then be viable space from an overcrowded FM band, would abound. XM and Sirius only gained critical mass because they got their receivers into cars.
 
umfan said:
If iBiquity would subsidize receivers into new cars, the technology might have a chance. Subchannels and better AM reception, which might then be viable space from an overcrowded FM band, would abound. XM and Sirius only gained critical mass because they got their receivers into cars.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised there haven't been known talks between iBiquity and Google (Android Auto) or Apple (CarPlay). If they gave the chips out for free, it could me marketed as an ad-free way to reduce data usage.
 
If iBiquity gave its tech away for free, its business model would implode. Still not a bad idea.
 
diymedia said:
If iBiquity gave its tech away for free, its business model would implode. Still not a bad idea.
Click to expand...

Most of the IBOC haters are complaining about HD on AM and should make that distinction.

HD on FM is doing fine, and shows no sign of disappearing.
 
Depends on how they define capability. No way do 80% of new cars come equipped with an HD radio. They may be definining capability as a port by which a portable HD receiver could be connected to the audio system the same way an MP3 Player can. I have a portable HD radio, the issue is I can't connect it to the car antenna. Some of the better HD programming is disappearing, like 80s and Smooth Jazz, so it makes less sense to bother with it.
 
umfan said:
Depends on how they define capability. No way do 80% of new cars come equipped with an HD radio. They may be definining capability as a port by which a portable HD receiver could be connected to the audio system the same way an MP3 Player can.
Click to expand...

No, no one is defining it as a "port"....but I don't know where you got the 80% figure. The last I heard from this year was 1/3 of new cars.

http://www.radioworld.com/article/automakers-speed-hd-radio-adoption/223687

umfan said:
Some of the better HD programming is disappearing, like 80s and Smooth Jazz,
Click to expand...

What disappeared from where?
 
Bill_981 said:
According to iBiquity, 80% of new cars have HD Radio capability.
Click to expand...

Deceptive iBiquity speak. They really are saying that 80% of car manufacturers have a model that comes with HD. That means that not all brands have HD. And not all models. And in the models where it is available, it may only come with the premium sound system and not the base models.

In many, such as my car, unless you read the manually very thoroughly, you'd never know it had HD radio capabilities. It took me 20 minutes of reading and searching to figure out how to turn HD off to avoid the annoying drop-outs.
 
RadioFan123 said:
I'm surprised there haven't been known talks between iBiquity and Google (Android Auto) or Apple (CarPlay). If they gave the chips out for free, it could me marketed as an ad-free way to reduce data usage.
Click to expand...

Their business model is based on a royalty on every chip.
 
umfan said:
If iBiquity would subsidize receivers into new cars, the technology might have a chance. Subchannels and better AM reception, which might then be viable space from an overcrowded FM band, would abound. XM and Sirius only gained critical mass because they got their receivers into cars.
Click to expand...

iBiquity only makes money on the licensing of the chips, so they can not give them away. OTOH, satellite makes money every month from subscriptions, so they can reward the car manufacturers with incentives and ongoing revenue participation for every activated install.
 
I remember reading and hearing from "reliable sources" in the past, that the chipsets were $40 EACH, WHOLESALE! That means there's no way possible to see an "HD" radio for less than $100... this was back when it was all still "new"... and how many radio did we see for less than $100? Kinda confirms the rumors.

Then the things sat there... and sat there... collecting dust. Retailers don't like that... so eventually, some of them started selling them at a loss. I got my Sony xdr-f1hd receiver for $88 in 2009 or 2010. I remember setting it up in the shop, when I worked in Norwalk. WCBS came in with quite a powerful signal, and we used it as a gauge for how "HD" was working.

When it first popped on, my friend and I were both like, "Wow!" at the high end... but literally, within less than a minute, we were like... "What is WRONG with this audio?" It was crisp, it was clear... but there was SOMETHING about it that was very odd. After a few more minutes, it dawned on me! Every consonant, especially the "S" sound... *WAS IDENTICAL*!! Regardless of who was speaking, all of their S's sounded EXACTLY ALIKE. That just ain't normal! (I later conformed it by recording the audio into Cool Edit, then looking on the spectral display. Same spectra each time. Wow.)

Then I brought the radio home. It worked well... in analog mode, the AM and the FM are second to none! However, it doesn't have an option to "lock" the radio in analog mode... SO I ADDED ONE! ;) (A switch on the back.)

Back to WCBS... it would come in solidly during the day, but within an hour or two of sunset, the "HD" started dropping out, until finally, it just would never "open" the HD at all. (The "HD" symbol would flash, indicating there was an HD signal, but it could never achieve "lock".) This didn't clear until sometime after sunrise. The smae thing happened with WFAN, as well. BOTH of those stations come in at my house with more than 20mv/m as measured on a Potomac FIM! That ain't no weak signal!!! Yet for each time I tried, once it was dark outside... "HD" was gone... and that was in the SUMMER!! I never bothered to test it in winter, since I knew it would only be worse.

Then you have the car radios... Someone I know has family that own a few car dealerships. Want to know what the NUMBER *ONE* reason for RETURNED cars was? *THE "HD" RADIO*!! Because of the constant cut-outs/drop-outs, etc... people would return the cars! That's not good.

So far, the "HD" on FM only seems to be useful as a translator STL for skirting the "No Program Origination Rules" on x-lators! If you can acquire a decent-powered x-lator in a major population center, and you have an FM with coverage to that area... you can program something unique on that x-lator, just by using your hd2, hd3, etc, "channel" to feed it. I have to give credit to the handful of operators who are doing exactly this. It allows them to have two or three unique "stations" in a given market, all fed by their main FM.

Guaranteed, *MANY MORE* people are listening to the signal on that x-lator, than are hearing the HDx channels!
 
WPHA said:


I remember reading and hearing from "reliable sources" in the past, that the chipsets were $40 EACH, WHOLESALE! That means there's no way possible to see an "HD" radio for less than $100...
Click to expand...

I would love to know the "source"...because this is simply wrong.
 
WPHA said:
I remember reading and hearing from "reliable sources" in the past, that the chipsets were $40 EACH, WHOLESALE! That means there's no way possible to see an "HD" radio for less than $100...
Click to expand...

Would it be too much to ask that you do just a little research and not spout rumors.

Start here:
http://www.silabs.com/Support Documents/TechnicalDocs/Si4688.pdf
http://octopart.com/si4688-a10-gm-silicon+laboratories-25972530

The shortcomings of the IBOC system have been known to me for the 8 years I've owned "HD" radios (3 of them). The spectral replication artifice on the AM mode is obvious. However the system has one overriding virtue: It eliminates multipath tearup and noise on FM.

For those such as myself living in Manhattan this is the main point.

Another is the fact that often AM content is available as an FM sub. In my case WNYC's AM offerings, which differ at times from their FM are available at better fidelity via a sub.

The AM application was always an appendage demanded by AM broadcasters. It is probably dead issue -along with the band itself. It was worth try to rescue the band from the right-wing bilge and hucksters who've taken an increasing share of it.

The side effects may have pissed-off a few DX'ers but AM IBOC was a good, last try.

Chan/NYC
 
I use FM-HD the same way LCG does: I use it to listen to KYW Newsradio on 94.1-HD2 instead of 1060. I do experience occasional drop outs in the western Philadelphia suburbs, but fewer than I do on my XM radio.
Overall, I'm pleased with FM-HD as a way to get an AM-band station onto FM.
 
Please note my use of the words, "IN THE PAST" when referring to the cost of the "HD" chipsets. I spent a fair amount of time trying to Google various sources of them, and there were few... nobody listing any prices.

It was long enough ago, that I don't remember who the FEW chipset sources were.

As for the "Reliable Sources", they were people working in the field, who asked to be kept anonymous.
 
One of the guys at the iBiquity booth at this year's radio show said it was something like $6 per chip.
 
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