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Final Score: Programmers and 300 Song Playlists 1, Sanity and Intelligence 0.

C

ChannelFlipper

Star Participant
So I am driving with my business colleague to a meeting the other day and of course we haven't been in the car five minutes before the opening dulcet guitar strains of "Hotel California" come out the speakers. Before my reflexive action to channel flip can even get to the button, she says. "Oh, Yeah, that is my favorite song - turn it up! I don't get to hear it that often because I only listen to the radio for about 20 minutes every few days or so". I was astounded that in two short sentences she completely validated everything the pros say.

So okay, you've got her. But I have a question for you: You corralled her by getting her to listen to her favorite song. But you have her attention for just those few minutes. If she is only listening for 20 minutes every few days, how can advertising really penetrate to her? With that limited amount of TSL, there is no way she can really be affected by commercials she may hear, since we know that commercials generally need to be heard multiple times to establish a connection that might lead to a sale. She is a cume listener but not a TSL listener. Wouldn't you want the TSL listener where you have a chance to make those multiple impressions?
 
ChannelFlipper said:
She is a cume listener but not a TSL listener. Wouldn't you want the TSL listener where you have a chance to make those multiple impressions?
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The average listening per week to major LA stations is in the 2 to 3 hour range. For every 4 hour listener there is a 1 hour a week listener... as in your example. Those are the listeners that KRTH goes after.
 
I think the OP assumes people's listening habits are strictly a function of the radio programming. We find that's not the case. Most people have jobs, lives, families, and lots of other activities on their schedule. So the time you get with them is the time you get, regardless of the number of songs you play. The co-worker would not take time away from her kids just so she could possibly hear an "oh wow" song on KRTH.
 
Big A: To her (and to a lot of listeners) an "Oh Wow" song is "Hotel California"...a song that's a 10 on their scale of 10. They say "Oh, wow!" when they're presented with a favorite, not with something unfamiliar. And she probably hasn't heard that song on the radio in a few weeks.

ChannelFlipper: It'll take longer to make the impressions with her, but they'll accumulate. Advertisers know how listeners behave. It's why they buy 5 or more stations deep in a demographic...so the impressions can pile on.

Nothing says the multiple impressions have to be made on your air, much less the one that trips the trigger and makes the listener buy. The object is to make sure you're one of those 5 or more stations that get the business from the advertiser. And that's strictly a numbers game.
 
michael hagerty said:
(and to a lot of listeners) an "Oh Wow" song is "Hotel California"...a song that's a 10 on their scale of 10. They say "Oh, wow!" when they're presented with a favorite, not with something unfamiliar.
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You and I know that is not the true definition of an "Oh Wow" song, it's a favorite, but not an "Oh Wow".

An "Oh Wow" relates to music that has not been heard on a station in years or longer. That song causes the listeners to "flashback" to when they were young or some event in their lives and react as such....an "Oh Wow....haven't heard that in ages type reaction". If the song isn't remembered, then it's a mute point, but when it is, then you get the reactions.

"Hotel California" is not an "Oh Wow" song. "I Can't Tell You Why" is.

"Against the Wind" is not, "Fire Lake" is.

You should know this.
 
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TheBigA said:
Interesting...so for the sake of discussion, what is the average listening in...let's say...Philadelphia? Is it perhaps a bit longer?
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Depending on the station, national levels in PPM are almost all in the 2 to 3 hour per station range.

I looked at a recent month for NYC and...

Rounded to closest quarter hour

WABC 3:15
WAXQ 2:30
WBLS 4:00
WVBS FM 2:45
WEPN FM 2:00
WFAN 3:00
WHTZ 1:45
WINS 2:30
WKTU 1:24

This gives the range you can expect in any market.
 
Also: Based on your story, ChannelFlipper, the title of the thread is wrong. Sanity and intelligence have been served. It would be insane and not smart not to tailor music rotations to audience behavior.
 
oldies76 said:
""I Can't Tell You Why" is.
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I don't agree with this. If you want to assign the "oh wow" factor to an Eagles song, it should be something like Seven Bridges Road.

R
 
DavidEduardo said:


To that listener, based on her reaction, Hotel California is an Oh Wow song.
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I predict a new thread developing now in which we argue about what constitutes an "Oh Wow", with oldies76 proclaiming that he knows better than any listener what their "oh wow" songs are. :p
 
I'm one of those people who consider Hotel California to be an "Oh wow" song. Every time I hear it, my first thought is "Oh wow, again! I'm so sick of this song---I've already heard it more than 10,000 times!"

(Sorry, K.M., but you can blame ChannelFlipper---he is the one who brought up that song.)

David, the PPM devices keep track of every minute that someone is listening to the radio, correct? So the PPM data would also show whether a listener is changing stations every time a long commercial break begins. Several people here have talked about advertisers...but what do the advertisers think when their commercials are running seventh or eighth in a block of ten? They certainly can't think that listeners are paying close attention to every commercial, can they? And they certainly are aware that many listeners will hear the first commercial begin and then change the station to one that's playing music. I'd love to see KRTH's audience size during a 20-minute music sweep and then see how much it drops during an eight- or nine-minute block of commercials.
 
K.M. Richards said:
I predict a new thread developing now in which we argue about what constitutes an "Oh Wow", with oldies76 proclaiming that he knows better than any listener what their "oh wow" songs are. :p
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I very well know what "Oh Wow" songs are being in music and / or radio for the last 30 years. Songs that are played everyday are not "Oh Wow's". Only songs that have not been played for some time and that are suddenly new to the rotation and the subsequent reaction by listeners as such, are. The only way "Hotel.." can be an "Oh Wow" is if that listener had not heard that song in some time, otherwise it's not since it's played regularly on classic hits stations, nationwide.

And as a sidenote KM, every person has their unique reactions what their own "Oh Wow's" are. Every person has different tastes and choices in popular music. Mine are different, person X is different. Not everyone likes every single song presented on radio. "Hotel.....can be as much as an "Oh Wow" to someone, just as "Just the Two of Us" to another. The songs that are played far LESS will have more of an impact as an "Oh Wow" than the songs that are being played daily. Someday you'll understand.
 
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LARadioRewind said:
I'm one of those people who consider Hotel California to be an "Oh wow" song. Every time I hear it, my first thought is "Oh wow, again! I'm so sick of this song---I've already heard it more than 10,000 times!"
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True too!
 
oldies76 said:
I very well know what "Oh Wow" songs are being in music and / or radio for the last 30 years. Songs that are played everyday are not "Oh Wow's". Only songs that have not been played for some time and that are suddenly new to the rotation and the subsequent reaction by listeners as such, are. The only way "Hotel.." can be an "Oh Wow" is if that listener had not heard that song in some time, otherwise it's not since it's played regularly on classic hits stations, nationwide
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With the average weekly listening time to KRTH at 2:00 (3 month average) "Hotel" is an "oh wow" song for many who may not have heard it for what, to them, is too long a time.

In programming, we have to reference spins to the amount of time the average person listens to the radio and how long they listen to a particular station.
 
Shawn Burke, a DJ at Orlando classic-hits station WQMMO, says: "We don't limit our playlist to songs from 'all today' or 'all yesterday.' We think adults our age can enjoy the truly widest variety...all on one radio station. I like being able to play songs that are the favorites of so many people, and still throw in the occasional 'oh wow' song." There ya go! An "oh wow" song is not necessarily a song that is everyone's favorite. Rather, it's one that hasn't been heard for a long time, maybe 20 years or more. Is there anyone in the United States who hasn't heard Hotel California for 20 years? Yeah, see.....

WMMO is mostly 1970s-80s-90s with a few '60s and 2000s. In the past several hours, along with the usual hits, they've played Fly, Volcano, Shakin', She's So High, Cherry Bomb, Barely Breathing, Lovely Day, You Learn, Dog & Butterfly, Roll To Me, I Don't Care Anymore, My Father's Eyes...but no Hotel California and no Brown Eyed Girl. And to that I can say "Oh wow!"

http://www.wmmo.com
 
I have not heard Hotel California in almost 6 years, but then I don't listen to OTA radio anymore. I wouldn't consider it an "Oh Wow" song if I heard it again in 15 years. To me, an Oh Wow is a song that doesn't test well and yet still gets a spin. So for me, an "Oh Wow" would be something like Lights Out by Peter Wolfe or Never Ending Story by Limahl.

R
 
LARadioRewind said:
Shawn Burke, a DJ at Orlando classic-hits station WQMMO, says:
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Good for him. I hope it's making him rich.

As I often say: Radio is local. He is programming for his market. I love Orlando. I've been there many times. I'd love to live there but it's too far from the beach.
 
And you'd have to listen to far too many Jimmy Buffett records. :)
 
LARadioRewind said:
And you'd have to listen to far too many Jimmy Buffett records. :)
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Not necessarily. Orlando is very influenced by the 500,000 or so Puerto Ricans now living there. They listened to English language music on the Island and are listeners to many of the English language stations in Orlando. But artists like Jimmy Buffett did not get played in Puerto Rico so they are not part of the heritage of a third of the people in the market.
 
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