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Clear Channel and Cumulus

Shredder

Leading Participant
here's a dumb question. don't worry, i'm full of them.

If you believe reports, these companies are so low on cash, they are tapping in to their reserves.
What WAS their original game plan, buying up countless radio stations beyond what they where able to afford? did they even have one?

Do you think things would have been better off, or more creative without these behmoths around? Or was it all done soley so a few people can
get rich?

Looking at it now, it just seems like one weird business model.
 
Do you think things would have been better off, or more creative without these behmoths around? Or was it all done soley so a few people can
get rich?

Historically, people like Marconi and Thomas Edison got into radio to get rich. So there's nothing new there. Same with Bill Paley. And they did. A lot of people got very rich owning radio stations in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s. The story of the 80s was that the founders of radio were looking to cash out. The problem was radio was too small a platform for major companies like GE or Westinghouse to make money any more. So lots of people were selling, and the only guys buying were Robert F.X. Sillmerman and Jeff Smulyan. Big media or electronics companies simply weren't interested any more. They were the companies that built radio. So the "behemoths," as you put it, have always been around. Even the family companies like Sonderling or McLendon had become behemoths by the 80s.

But the question was: Who was going to provide the business support in the future? The answer came in investment companies. But the people building radio by the early 90s were building radio-only companies. Because quite frankly, no one else was buying. The Mays family in San Antonio ran one of the best radio companies in the business in 1992, and they decided the time was right to start expanding. Deregulation in 1996 made that possible, and radio was no longer the small platform it had become.

Do I think things would be better off? At the end of the day, someone has to provide the money to pay the people and handle the costs. Broadcasting has become an industry that requires a lot of legal and engineering services, and that costs money. Programmers don't have the connections to attract the kind of money necessary, so you have to partner with someone who does. Did the Mays family think they'd end up with a company 20 billion in debt? Of course not, and the fact is they were doing well for a long time. They couldn't get as much credit as they did if their goal was to lose money. Their business model was built on the radio reality of 1998, not 2008. When you buy a lot of stations, and not all of them are profitable, you end up running a deficit. If you run a company that isn't diversified, so all of your income is from one business, and that one business hits a slow period, as we did in 2008, you go deeply into debt. Cumulus is in far better shape with 10% of the debt that Clear Channel has. But even then, they have to run their stations based around the money they can make.

We all know that radio doesn't have the monopoly it did 20 years ago. It isn't the best value for advertisers. That hurts the ability of these companies to spend money on programming. Companies with no debt are operating in that same business environment, so my answer to your question is that radio would not be better off with smaller companies. In fact, my view is that given the consolidation that has occurred in every other industry, including retail and the music industry, radio would be worse off. Because it would not be able to make the kind of deals we can now with the music industry, which is core to our content. And we would not be able to attract national advertising dollars, which is core to the health of our business.
 
Cumulus has actually done a pretty good job of managing its debt (regardless of how you feel about how it manages much of anything else). It spends very little cash when acquiring stations and does most of its transactions in stock. Even the vast majority of the Citadel deal was a stock-for-stock deal.

As for Clear Channel, its debt issues have been public knowledge for awhile. When the Mays family owned it, it had a serviceable debt load, but the private equity firms that bought it paid top dollar right before the bottom dropped out. For a long time, there was a lot of optimism that no one could lose money in radio if it was big enough. Plus, I doubt the PE firms that bought Clear Channel believed they'd hold onto it this long. They're usually short-term investors who attempt to sell their investments for top dollar a few years later.
 
I doubt the PE firms that bought Clear Channel believed they'd hold onto it this long. They're usually short-term investors who attempt to sell their investments for top dollar a few years later.

If you remember the sequence that led to the privatization, the companies involved tried to get out of the deal, because they realized they were paying a top of the market price for a company that lost a ton of value in just six months. IIRC, it took a court order to force the deal to its final stage. And yes, they probably thought it would be a short term process, and they're go public again when the economy recovered. But while the economy recovered, the value did not. So that's why Pittman realized he had to create a new platform to replace that lost value.
 
At least in regard to the NYC properties (770-710) this was all about vanity outlet for their syndication product. I doubt Clear Channel would have bought the moribund WOR if a competitor hadn't acquired 770 and made clear that all Premiere stuff was out at the end of the contract.

It sort of ironic that in NYC-Metro where the gop is slowly dying off these two AM mastodons will still be around for years to come, even when their cumes sink to 20,000 or 30,000K. They'll always be a -few- crackpot around to listen.

Chan
 
At least in regard to the NYC properties (770-710) this was all about vanity outlet for their syndication product.

I'm starting to wonder about that. Maybe in the case of CC, but over at Cumulus, they really don't have any big syndicated talk shows. Imus certainly isn't something to build a station around, and they haven't forced him on their other big market AMs. They got Dennis Miller when they bought Westwood and he's not on WABC. All they really have is Savage and Levin. If you look around in other markets, like Atlanta, they seem to want to build local talkers.
 
I'm starting to wonder about that. Maybe in the case of CC, but over at Cumulus, they really don't have any big syndicated talk shows. Imus certainly isn't something to build a station around, and they haven't forced him on their other big market AMs. They got Dennis Miller when they bought Westwood and he's not on WABC. All they really have is Savage and Levin. If you look around in other markets, like Atlanta, they seem to want to build local talkers.

But you can not overlook corporate pride. How would it look if the Cloud is carrying a competitor's shows in market #`1 instead of their own gasbags.

The real fun comes in about 3-4 years when none of these shows will have saleable demos in any substantial markets. Then what?

Chan
 
As I said, they don't appear to be going all-syndie. Re-read my post.

You are missing the point here. This isn't Gillette Wyoming -it is market number one. If you are going to offer any sort of syndication product , it needs that cred.

C-C fired a highly rated evening host on top-rated WLTW so it could slot "Delilah" in mkt-1 (and save a few bucks).

Chan
 
You are missing the point here.

No, you're missing the point. Cumulus isn't Clear Channel, and they don't have the syndicated lineup CC has. They haven't launched any new syndication since Geraldo, and then they withdrew him from national syndication.
 
No, you're missing the point. Cumulus isn't Clear Channel, and they don't have the syndicated lineup CC has. They haven't launched any new syndication since Geraldo, and then they withdrew him from national syndication.

Nonetheless, that is the direction the talk sector is still going. They got WABC in the Citadel package. The desirable demos were in the pits long before that and the trend is irreversible. The calls are a prestige factor - that is about all. Other than that, there is little point in not unloading the station.

Recently they re-united the mook-huckster Curtis Sliwa and lawyer Ron Kuby for PM drive. The betting is that once fossil Imus quits/croaks those two will be an AM syndication offering.

Most of the stations carrying talk shows now are little more than downlink-repeaters. Syndication is their only option, many will be gone inside five years anyway. I've had discussions with contract C.E's that tell of facilities in such bad shape that one lighting strike or other "catastrophe" and that is "it". "Live and Local" is a pipe-dream.

Chan.
 
Really? Who is betting on that? Other than you?

The show isn't winning in NYC...what's the motivation to carry it somewhere else?

Oh come-on, you can't be that dense. In case you've missed it, NONE of the AM talkers -except for sports are doing well here in NYC-Metro. That is part of the point here, these two dinosaurs (710-770) are all about prestige for syndication. If you have any doubts about this statement ask yourself: Why would Clear Channel pay a reported $30 million for an obsolete radio station in a market hostile to right-wing talk?

Whether, or not it works here doesn't really matter. It is about providing something to sell to the rest of the country's toilets.

And no, it is not personal with me. You would need serious cash to get me to listen to any of that commercial junk.

Chan
 
That is part of the point here, these two dinosaurs (710-770) are all about prestige for syndication.

Except that, as I've already said several times, Cumulus doesn't have much syndicated talk. They've owned the station for 3 years, and haven't really done a whole lot with it.
 
You are missing the point here. This isn't Gillette Wyoming -it is market number one. If you are going to offer any sort of syndication product , it needs that cred.

C-C fired a highly rated evening host on top-rated WLTW so it could slot "Delilah" in mkt-1 (and save a few bucks).

Chan

Ugh, Delilah. My parents used to listen to that. They should bottle it up and sell it in competition to Ambien..
 
At least in regard to the NYC properties (770-710) this was all about vanity outlet for their syndication product. I doubt Clear Channel would have bought the moribund WOR if a competitor hadn't acquired 770 and made clear that all Premiere stuff was out at the end of the contract.

It sort of ironic that in NYC-Metro where the gop is slowly dying off these two AM mastodons will still be around for years to come, even when their cumes sink to 20,000 or 30,000K. They'll always be a -few- crackpot around to listen.

Chan

I'm surprised ANYONE listenes to AM anymore, never mind anyone over 60. My Coworker had on, Ithink 1250AM recently, and they where actually playing music...60's no less....A shame they can't get rid of the political garbage and start filling niche markets. I'd listen to An AM that had 40s big band music.
 
Whether, or not it works here doesn't really matter. It is about providing something to sell to the rest of the country's toilets.

Chan

Even network sales is about more than just market clearances. Pricing is based on audience delivery.
 
When the 1996 Telecom Act passed, I think the model was acquire a lot of stations and program them, to a large extent, remotely. Revenue played along for awhile and costs did drop. While the trend toward digital music was well known in 1996, who could've foreseen the impact the iPod and internet music delivery would have on radio distribution?

CC did what it did with WOR to ensure clearance of its top syndicated shows in New York. Cumulus was making threats but ended up keeping Rush in most markets.

I would argue that CC has better leveraged it's product through iHeart. While the whole will likely never be worth what it was acquired for and there will be a restructuring of debt at some point, they have leveraged their many properties and programs into a solid digital product.
 
When the 1996 Telecom Act passed, I think the model was acquire a lot of stations and program them, to a large extent, remotely.

I think that's what employees at local stations expected, but it really didn't happen until recently. And a lot of companies still operate as though deregulation never happened.
 
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