What's happening at KTWV "The Wave"?

BigA, I do not consider KTWV's format to be "urban adult contemporary." They play songs by r&b artists and a few smooth-jazz artists but also Adele, Eric Clapton, Justin Timberlake, Christopher Cross, Bruce Hornsby, Mariah Carey, Wham, Genesis, Steely Dan, Maroon 5, Simply Red, Hall & Oates, the Police and the Doobie Brothers. I consider the format to be a 2015 version of KUTE's "Quiet Storm" format of 1983-87.

LARadioRewind said:

BigA, I do not consider KTWV's format to be "urban adult contemporary."

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He said the station itself self-describes as that, Steve. Maybe you should tell CBS they're wrong.

K.M., I know that KTWV calls its format "urban adult contemporary." Prior to that, they used "smooth adult contemporary." With songs such as September and What A Fool Believes, the "smooth" appellation doesn't really fit...and with all the above-named pop groups, the "urban" appellation doesn't fit either. But they can call the format whatever they want. If the other fifty listeners don't care, then I don't care.

LARadioRewind said:

But they can call the format whatever they want. If the other fifty listeners don't care, then I don't care.

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Can't help but notice, Steve, how much verbiage you have devoted to something you now say you don't care about ...

So you're saying that I'm a good conversationalist? By the way, I gave my collection of KTWV newsletters and magazines to David yesterday. He'll scan all the pages and they should be on his Radio History site ( http://www.americanradiohistory.com ) in about two weeks. David has uploaded more than two million pages of radio publications going back to 1913. The purpose of the site is, in David's words, "to preserve the memories, the heritage and the events" of the medium of radio. Calling the site impressive is an egregious understatement. Thank you, David! (And now that I know David Gleason and David Eduardo are the same person, I can say "thank you" to both of them.)

LARadioRewind said:

So you're saying that I'm a good conversationalist? By the way, I gave my collection of KTWV newsletters and magazines to David yesterday. He'll scan all the pages and they should be on his Radio History site ( http://www.americanradiohistory.com ) in about two weeks. David has uploaded more than two million pages of radio publications going back to 1913. The purpose of the site is, in David's words, "to preserve the memories, the heritage and the events" of the medium of radio. Calling the site impressive is an egregious understatement. Thank you, David! (And now that I know David Gleason and David Eduardo are the same person, I can say "thank you" to both of them.)

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That site also has old R&R issues from the 90's. I love that site. Even throughout the years as LA's Smooth Jazz station The Wave did play some tracks that were popular on Urban AC such as; Rahsaan Patterson "Spend The Night"(1997), Joe "I Wanna Know"(2000), Toni Braxton "Let It Flow"(1996). Pointless I know.

LARadioRewind said:

I gave my collection of KTWV newsletters and magazines to David yesterday. He'll scan all the pages and they should be on his Radio History site ( http://www.americanradiohistory.com ) in about two weeks. David has uploaded more than two million pages of radio publications going back to 1913. The purpose of the site is, in David's words, "to preserve the memories, the heritage and the events" of the medium of radio. Calling the site impressive is an egregious understatement. Thank you, David!

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I'm glad you made that donation, Steve. David has been quite devoted to developing that site and I've made my small contributions as well (most of the Broadcast Programming & Production issues are scans of my copies, as are all of the Panorama magazines and the two annuals of Channels of Communication that survived multiple moves on my part over the years). I just unearthed a near-mint copy of a book which is essentially a publication of Dr. John Kinross' Ph.D. thesis on television channel allocation policy, written in 1960 when the FCC and the industry were still struggling to make UHF work. The book was a limited-press run in the first place (1979), and has been out of print ever since, but it has many revelations in it which later proved to be true. David wants to scan it but I've not been able to locate Kinross to get his permission.

It is fair for me to say the History of UHF Television website couldn't have been created without David's research library. 90% or more of the fact-verification took place using his resources.

K.M., when I was a teenager (mid-1960s), my father bought a VHF/UHF television and I think there were only three UHF channels then: KWHY-22, KCET-28 and KMEX-34. On our Zenith TV, the programming on all three of those channels appeared to have filmed during a snowstorm but that could be partly due to the fact that we lived close to the mountains of the Angeles Forest. Wasn't KMEX the first UHF in Los Angeles? Or had there been others that tested but never officially went on the air?

Mikael Wood, writing in today's Los Angeles Times, discusses the growing popularity of "adult R&B" aimed at a "mature audience." The music deals with "adult concerns like parenthood and politics in songs that feel just as vivid as flashier, more youthful tunes about finding love in the club." And isn't that the format that I said KTWV should adopt? I'm vindicated!

LARadioRewind said:

Wasn't KMEX the first UHF in Los Angeles?

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Depends on how you define it, Steve.

The actual first was KTHE/28, licensed to USC, which operated from August 3, 1953 to September 10, 1954. It was the first non-commercial UHF station to go on the air and the first non-commercial on either dial to go dark.

KBIC-TV/22 was on the air with a test pattern almost continuously beginning in December 1953, and officially began running actual programming as KIIX from March 25, 1963 to March 9, 1964 ... resuming under different owners as KPOL-TV March 29, 1965 and continuing as KWHY-TV after another ownership change August 17, 1966.

KMEX-TV/34 began operation September 30, 1962. KCET/28 started September 28, 1964. In between them, if you're counting the Inland Empire, KCHU/18 (COL San Bernardino) operated from February 26, 1962 to June 24, 1964 and non-commercial KVCR-TV/24 signed on for the first time September 11, 1962.

So ...

First UHF in Los Angeles? KTHE.
First commercial UHF on the air at all? KBIC-TV.
First commercial UHF in Southern California with programming? KCHU.
First commercial UHF in Los Angeles with programming? KMEX-TV.

This is all, of course, information which can be found at the History of UHF Television website.

If you define "first" as "getting on the air with programming and never going dark", then it's KVCR-TV if you're including the Inland Empire, otherwise KMEX-TV wins handily.

Mikael Wood, writing in today's Los Angeles Times, discusses the growing popularity of "adult R&B" aimed at a "mature audience." The music deals with "adult concerns like parenthood and politics in songs that feel just as vivid as flashier, more youthful tunes about finding love in the club." And isn't that the format that I said KTWV should adopt? I'm vindicated!

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Call me when he shows his radio programming credentials. Until then ...

LARadioRewind said:

Mikael Wood, writing in today's Los Angeles Times, discusses the growing popularity of "adult R&B" aimed at a "mature audience."

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Did we read the same article? He's writing primarily from a music perspective, not a radio perspective. Big difference. I didn't see anything to indicate a "growing popularity." I went through his list of songs and didn't see any hits around which you could build a format. It sounds more like a nice Pandora channel for his own personal enjoyment...and yours.

There is a growing interest in an Urban AC format that focuses mainly on hits of the early 90s. It's a big hit now in Philadelphia. It's possible The Wave could evolve into that, without forsaking their heritage too much. But it's more of a rhythmic, semi-hip hop format than anything like Toni Braxton.

To K M Richards: I think the problem in locating Mr "Kinross" may be tied to the spelling of his last name.

Google lists a 1979 edition of this book as having been published by the Arno Press (a New York Times affiliate at the time) but shows the author as "John M Kittross."

http://books.google.com/books/about/Television_Frequency_Allocation_Policy_i.html?id=R62y4KHzt_EC

John Kittross turns out to have been the Professor of Communications at Temple University(after a stint in Los Angeles at USC) who began writing immediately after WW2. If still living he would probably be in his eighties. The last reference I can find .was his receiving a BEA (Broadcast Education Association) award in 1990. He was a regular attendee of their conventions. Either they or Temple might be able to tell you about his current status.

https://www.questia.com/library/jou...historian-individualist-john-michael-kittross

The founder of the Arno Press retired after the NYT acquisition and died in 1985. I do not know if that woudl be a viable lead but they might have some information on the copyright..

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/26/nyregion/arnold-zohn-dies-began-arno-press.html

Art Landing said:

To K M Richards: I think the problem in locating Mr "Kinross" may be tied to the spelling of his last name.

Google lists a 1979 edition of this book as having been published by the Arno Press (a New York Times affiliate at the time) but shows the author as "John M Kittross."

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Thank you for the correction. I am embarrassed to say I was looking at the cover of the book when I typed it and still managed to get it wrong (but not too embarrassed to admit that).

The Google reference is to the book I have. Thank you for confirming that as well. Arno Press, sadly, is defunct now; apparently Mr. Zohn was the only thing keeping it going. So far I have been unable to find anyone at Temple University who can give me Dr. Kittross' whereabouts, but I keep trying.

Your attempt to help is appreciated, even though you are hitting the same dead ends as I.

Personally, I thought "The Wave" should have gone Soft Westcoast AOR Fusion along with the Smooth Jazz. It would be a great format to have some of the music they are playing now (Christopher Cross, McDonald era Doobies, Al Jarreau) and throw in some late 70's Bob James, Steely Dan, Toto, Lee Ritenour etc. There was some great stuff out there in the late 70's and early 80's that had a great vibe. Plenty of artists that never got their due back in the day (Pages, Lauren Wood, Robbie Dupree, Stephen Bishop to name a few). And there are some contemporary artists out there that still carry the torch from a Soft AC and Smooth RB perspective. You can call some of it "Yacht Rock" but I prefer Westcoast Soft Rock. For LA it might be a cool station.

I did a rateyourmusic list of my top 200 albums a couple years back. Here's the link if you're interested:

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/Wolfie1966/my_favorite_westcoast_rock_and_smooth_jazz_albums

Gregwolf1966 said:

Personally, I thought "The Wave" should have gone Soft Westcoast AOR Fusion along with the Smooth Jazz. It would be a great format to have some of the music they are playing now (Christopher Cross, McDonald era Doobies, Al Jarreau) and throw in some late 70's Bob James, Steely Dan, Toto, Lee Ritenour etc. There was some great stuff out there in the late 70's and early 80's that had a great vibe. Plenty of artists that never got their due back in the day (Pages, Lauren Wood, Robbie Dupree, Stephen Bishop to name a few). And there are some contemporary artists out there that still carry the torch from a Soft AC and Smooth RB perspective. You can call some of it "Yacht Rock" but I prefer Westcoast Soft Rock. For LA it might be a cool station.

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Two words: Too white.

The high percentage of Hispanic population would have caused that to crash and burn in under a year. Look at the difficulty KTWV has with its present music mix -- which takes the ethnic weighting into account -- and then ask yourself if going farther in the direction The Wave continued on well after the handwriting was on the wall (they should have started moving away from "smooth jazz" at least five to seven years before they did) would have worked.

Gregwolf1966 said:

Personally, I thought "The Wave" should have gone Soft Westcoast AOR Fusion along with the Smooth Jazz. It would be a great format to have some of the music they are playing now (Christopher Cross, McDonald era Doobies, Al Jarreau) and throw in some late 70's Bob James, Steely Dan, Toto, Lee Ritenour etc. There was some great stuff out there in the late 70's and early 80's that had a great vibe. Plenty of artists that never got their due back in the day (Pages, Lauren Wood, Robbie Dupree, Stephen Bishop to name a few). And there are some contemporary artists out there that still carry the torch from a Soft AC and Smooth RB perspective. You can call some of it "Yacht Rock" but I prefer Westcoast Soft Rock. For LA it might be a cool station.

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That's all music I played when I was programming KOLO in Reno from 1977-81. I was targeting and getting 37-year-olds...who would now be....75-ish.

That plus the ethnic issue KM points out make it a tough sell.

In 2005, KXOL switched from Spanish-language programming to bilingual programming. The on-air hosts spoke both Spanish and English (but not at the same time, of course). Some of the songs and some of the ads were in Spanish and some were in English. I believe there were a few ratings periods when KXOL ranked #1 among 12-to-24-year-old listeners. In 2006, there were rumors that country KZLA would switch to a similar Spanglish format. KZLA instead became Movin' 93.9 and, even with Rick Dees in mornings, was unsuccessful. A decade later, the percentage of Latinos and hispanics in Los Angeles has increased. Would a Spanglish format work on KTWV? At least K.M. can't say that such a format is "too white."

They need to take all the key songs from hot 923, and divide them up between 1011 and 947. 947 should be a mass appeal rhythmic ac that is very good heavy. LA is a big market, you can juggle the 3 on the spectrum of 931 rock 1011 all and 947 rhythmic classics.

The classic hip hop format doesn't seem to have legs. It comes out of the gate really strong but fades quickly. as is the case with radio it is not being done to its full potential as that is always the hold back from programming based on fear and not fun, but to last it will always have to work in some currents. With power and 923, along with a very rhythmic 971 adding currents wont work here, so I'd not put that format on 947.

DOB said:

They need to take all the key songs from hot 923, and divide them up between 1011 and 947. 947 should be a mass appeal rhythmic ac that is very good heavy. LA is a big market, you can juggle the 3 on the spectrum of 931 rock 1011 all and 947 rhythmic classics.

The classic hip hop format doesn't seem to have legs. It comes out of the gate really strong but fades quickly. as is the case with radio it is not being done to its full potential as that is always the hold back from programming based on fear and not fun, but to last it will always have to work in some currents. With power and 923, along with a very rhythmic 971 adding currents wont work here, so I'd not put that format on 947.

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First, no one is going to put classic hip-hop on a full-market signal here, given how poorly the format has done on 93.5 ... as was the case with Indie all those years ago, trying something different on an inadequate signal will always hamper the results and make everyone with better signals shy away from that format.

Second, I don't see CBS doing anything to "divide up" the former Hot 92.3 format that they weren't already doing. If anything, they will psychoanalyze why it was that format iHeart blew up to take on Power 106 rather than another in the cluster. This is how the group owners play the game ... determine if a station's leaving a format leaves an opportunity or if it means a format isn't going to work if resurrected.

Third, could you please include the decimal points in the frequencies when you cite them? It becomes more difficult to read a post when we are used to seeing KRTH's frequency (as an example) as "101.1" and you post "1011".

?

1st I say that I don't see them doing classic hip hop as it is not a long term viable format, but you respond to my post as if I was advocating for them to do it. Why?

Then you respond to my comment that they should take the "key songs" from 923 and add them to the appropriate station 947 or 1011, and lay claim that I'm saying that they should do the old 923 format.

Really what is this all about? You even quote my post that is saying nothing of the sort that you are responding to, with a response based upon what you want to correct, none of which is what I said.

There would be some value to this discussion if you would respond to what I typed and then explain what you take issue with.

Also, as I sit here in the studio right now there are plenty of sheets of info that say our frequency without the ., it is really not necessary, however if it is that one change that I can make which will have you responding to what I actually said rather than what you have fictitiously created that you claim I have said well then I'm happy to oblige then.

If I'm missing something here by all means let me know. It just seems odd for someone to do what you did here, it's all good, just strange.