Modern Worship and more

Thought I'd Google a definition of "modern worship." At the top of the return was this article. I found some thoughts in the article that might have some relevance to a few of the topics we've discussed here and so decided to link it for all to read. Your thoughts please on how this does or doesn't apply to not only radio but also to a couple of tangents we find ourselves constantly chewing over around here.

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/modern-worship-music-wars

That's nothing new. I can remember a time many years ago in my church when there was a major kerfluffle when the regular organist had to take a brief medical leave of a few months, and we hired a substitute organist. The substitute came highly recommended by the synod leadership, and had excellent training and credentials, and knew the ins and outs of our hymnal and all our service music backwards and forwards. However, he used different stop settings than the regular organist used. He played some parts of the liturgy a little faster, and some parts a little slower. When he played "A Mighty Fortress" on Reformation Sunday, he added some trumpet voices for the third verse!

The congregation soon split down the middle with half demanding that the pastor tell the new guy to "play it right, like we're used to" and the other half demanding that when the regular organist came back from sick leave, she be told to "play it right, like the new guy does".

If a congregation of Christians who are all of the same denomination and used to the same things can get all worked up over minor tempo changes and organ voicings, how can anyone expect any sort of consensus over major differences in musical style.

And, it's not just music. Once, when I was doing pulpit supply as a substitute preacher, I preached a sermon standing front and center on the floor instead of from the pulpit off to the side. Some people who had always liked my sermons before were aghast that I broke tradition. Others said I should always stand in front instead of behind the pulpit. I've seen some people get bent out of shape if the pastor wears a chasuble on special Sundays!

Christian music on the radio can be entertainment. While the contemporary style is not my taste, the approach a lot of these stations take is that it is music like secular stations have, but the lyrics are clean and the message is positive.

And the reverse may somehow be true. WMUU, now online only, includes Bible verses and Christian messages during breaks like commercials, even when playing secular music, which they do during the day. They switch to sacred at night and on Sunday. Even when the music isn't Christian, they take the approach that tthey're still delivering a Christian message.

I am a bit puzzled about what "Modern Worship" would be as opposed to "Praise and Worship". An attempt to make praise and worship music more palatable to a younger audience? Really? Well - good luck with that. I seriously doubt there is enough audience to support two separate formats.

rbrucecarter5 said:

I am a bit puzzled about what "Modern Worship" would be as opposed to "Praise and Worship". An attempt to make praise and worship music more palatable to a younger audience? Really? Well - good luck with that. I seriously doubt there is enough audience to support two separate formats.

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I don't think this is a reference to radio formats, but to church services.

vchimpanzee said:

I don't think this is a reference to radio formats, but to church services.

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Actually, when I wrote about the "tangents we find ourselves constantly chewing over around here", it was kind of about you.

rbrucecarter5 said:

I am a bit puzzled about what "Modern Worship" would be as opposed to "Praise and Worship". An attempt to make praise and worship music more palatable to a younger audience? Really? Well - good luck with that. I seriously doubt there is enough audience to support two separate formats.

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It would help your understanding if you were aware of some of the theological intricacies surrounding the concept of "worship" within various faith traditions and denominations. For example, there is growing concern within the denominations of some faith traditions that the so called "CoWo" (an abbreviation of Contemporary Worship) is resulting in those in congregations sitting quietly as if they were a concert audience watching a "Jesus Show" in their churches. There is concern that the "show" is overshadowing the participation of the congregation in all aspects of worship, including the reduction in spoken litanies being replaced by musical performances by the praise band.

Within my own faith tradition, one thing we've noticed most is that it's the older worshippers who want the modern music, while the younger worshippers want "church" music when they go to church. If they wanted modern music, then they wouldn't go to church to hear it.

I didn't go to my church two weeks ago, but I asked what they did. I was told they had a regular service. I asked what about the fourth Sunday. Someone said if they're going to promise to have these services, then they need to be there for them.

I don't know if that's a good sign, but I'd be happy.

Yesterday, though, while it was a traditional service otherwise, I knew in advance that a soloist was going to sing, so I made sure to sneak out. I only went as far as a Sunday School classroom, but I could clearly hear the service on a speaker in the hall. And then I heard a soft guitar, and figured this wasn't so bad. Then there were these pounding drums and I was out the door. I don't get it. There are all these old people. How can they stand it?

At my church, it's not really that unusual for people to be walking down the hall in the middle of the service. I think a lot of them need to use the restroom, or there are restless kids. Now my aunt had a pastor whose previous church had some really traditional Christians who didn't want to do anything for young people, so the pastor's kids didn't feel welcome. And his wife had a medical problem which caused her to need to use the restroom frequently. They didn't like her doing that during the service.

vchimpanzee said:

Yesterday, though, while it was a traditional service otherwise, I knew in advance that a soloist was going to sing, so I made sure to sneak out. I only went as far as a Sunday School classroom, but I could clearly hear the service on a speaker in the hall. And then I heard a soft guitar, and figured this wasn't so bad. Then there were these pounding drums and I was out the door. I don't get it. There are all these old people. How can they stand it?

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Maybe it's because some of them actually LIKE it??? Or at least they're willing to tolerate it because they know some people do like it. The church I attend has a blended worship service with all ages, and there are older members who sing along with the contemporary songs. There may be some older people who don't like it, but they at least tolerate it. If there is anyone who is opposed to CCM they're in a small minority and probably know better than to cause problems over it. Maybe you could learn something from them.

anotherguy said:

Maybe it's because some of them actually LIKE it??? Or at least they're willing to tolerate it because they know some people do like it. The church I attend has a blended worship service with all ages, and there are older members who sing along with the contemporary songs. There may be some older people who don't like it, but they at least tolerate it. If there is anyone who is opposed to CCM they're in a small minority and probably know better than to cause problems over it. Maybe you could learn something from them.

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My preacher once taught that sometimes it is better for a church to grow by SUBTRACTION. He took over from an enormously popular father, and has a different slant on theology. Many long time members grumbled that they didn't like the change, and decided to leave. After they were gone and no longer a hindrance to the direction God was moving, the church took off and is now the largest in the country.

anotherguy said:

Maybe it's because some of them actually LIKE it??? Or at least they're willing to tolerate it because they know some people do like it. The church I attend has a blended worship service with all ages, and there are older members who sing along with the contemporary songs. There may be some older people who don't like it, but they at least tolerate it. If there is anyone who is opposed to CCM they're in a small minority and probably know better than to cause problems over it. Maybe you could learn something from them.

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I don't intend to. I'm not tolerating that noise.

vchimpanzee said:

I don't intend to. I'm not tolerating that noise.

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Psalms 66:1 (KJV) Make a joyful NOISE unto God, all ye lands:
Psalms 100:1 (KJV) Make a joyful NOISE unto the Lord, all ye lands.
Psalms 95:2 (KJV) Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful NOISE unto him with psalms.
Psalms 98:6 (KJV) With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful NOISE before the Lord, the King.
Psalms 81:1 (KJV) Sing aloud unto God our strength: make a joyful NOISE unto the God of Jacob.
Psalms 95:1 (KJV) O come, let us sing unto the Lord: let us make a joyful NOISE to the rock of our salvation.
Psalms 98:4 (KJV) Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all the earth: make a loud NOISE, and rejoice, and sing praise.

I intend to make a joyful NOISE unto the Lord every time I am given airtime! What is noise to you, my friend, is worship to many other folks. And by judging others, you are applying that same standard of judgement to yourself and returning curses to yourself. There is nothing God abandons faster than someone who hinders others from coming to a saving faith in Christ. YOU have the ability to turn the radio dial or leave churches that play music you personally do not like. I encourage you, once again, to practice your freedom to change stations - and churches - rather than create disruptions in a church that obviously is serving the spiritual needs of everybody but yourself. Anybody who calls the station and complains about the music - I counsel them to tune to another station rather than grieve their spirit. It is NOT that hard! I have left churches that had problems. And grew spiritually in new churches that did not. A church that served your needs in the past may not be where the Lord wants you. Move on, shake the dust off your feet on the way out. But don't cling to it and cause disruption, it is not where God wants you. Go somewhere that God wants you!

vchimpanzee said:

I don't intend to. I'm not tolerating that noise.

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At least don't ruin it for the others who are being blesed by it. Leaving (or not being there in the first place) is probably better than causing a disturbance.

As I've observed in other posts, within church congregations there is seldom a unanimous preference for any particular style of music for worship. I've been witness to (and a participant in) some heated discussions over the relative merits of 17th century German plainsong chorales versus 19th century Anglican hymns. I've seen lines sharply drawn between those who prefer hymns like "A Mighty Fortress" sung in four part harmony and accompanied by a pipe organ versus "Amazing Grace" sung in unison accompanied by a piano. Music in worship, including solos, anthems sung by the choir, hymns, chanted prayers and litanies, and all other music are offerings to God. The only issue that is supposed to matter is whether or not God would be pleased by the music. Based on the theological teachings of my faith tradition, on such matters God searches the heart of the gift giver. His pleasure is based on how open the heart of the giver is, not the thing that is given.

I try to avoid being judgemental in the sense of declaring someone guilty of an offense and pronouncing a sentence on them. On the other hand, I am not reluctant to evaluate a particular action in light of what Scripture tells us we should do in our dealings with each other. Anyone who walks out on a religious worship service because they refuse to "tolerate that noise" should be deeply ashamed of himself. That was a terrible, rude thing to do. Even worse than engaging in such non-Christian behavior is bragging about it on the internet afterwards.

Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:

I'm not in a mood this morning to go and track them down, but my memory tells me there are also Biblical references where Jesus and Disciples and others went on house cleaning missions.

There are times today when a church forms a "pulpit committee" and the committee either receives instructions from those who appointed them, or the committee in their search for wisdom and guidance realize it is time to bring in a leader who will shake things up, clean things up, and that might include music.

Been there. Done that. Got the tee-shirt.

It works both ways. Sometimes as a participant, as a member, you just need to take a hike. Sometimes you need to turn over the money-changers tables. (And that could include the table where the visiting band is selling their CDs. )

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--- wore the T-shirt out and threw it away. Been there too. Unfortunately in the case of WCIE Lakeland, it led to a shameful "raid" by the church on the station when the station got -in their eyes - out of hand. They got their way. They sold off the station to cover shady real-estate deals made by the pastor's son. Now THERE is some money changing to be taken care of!!!!

Usually, it is the church's own worship band selling CD's in the church bookstore. I've only seen visiting band sell CD's once or twice. But travelling guest preachers sell their books every time! I guess it all depends on what you like and don't like - whether you consider all that money changing.

Avid Listener said:

Anyone who walks out on a religious worship service because they refuse to "tolerate that noise" should be deeply ashamed of himself. That was a terrible, rude thing to do. Even worse than engaging in such non-Christian behavior is bragging about it on the internet afterwards.

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I don't think that's anything compared to what I feel like doing.

And they don't know. For all they know I'm in the rest room.

I thought I said this. There is a reason I posted the follwoing, so no one here would think people thought I was rude.

At my church, it's not really that unusual for people to be walking down the hall in the middle of the service. I think a lot of them need to use the restroom, or there are restless kids. Now my aunt had a pastor whose previous church had some really traditional Christians who didn't want to do anything for young people, so the pastor's kids didn't feel welcome. And his wife had a medical problem which caused her to need to use the restroom frequently. They didn't like her doing that during the service.