Westwood One adds new 24/7 Good Time Oldies format to replace Scott Shannon's TOC

DavidEduardo said:

No, people want dependable, familiar products most of the time. Experimentation and pioneering is saved for special moments. And this condition increases as consumers age due to experiences, good and bad, with trying new products or new implementations of old ones.

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I work in a department mall store and we always refresh and update our endcaps, our presentations, our features and visuals. If we don't, #1 the areas will empty out, #2, the customers will notice and say to themselves, don't these guys ever have anything new, it's the same stuff everytime I come here. And if we don't update things, we lose customers. It's been told to us numerous times by merchandising execs and store visits by regionals as suggestions to improve sales. This cannot be disputed.

Same thing happens in radio. People notice that everytime they "shop" your frequency, it's the same songs, so they switch, tuneout or lower the volume. People do not like the same thing over and over and over again, even if it's over the long haul, not to mention short term exposure. They don't! People like change, people like variety and people like to have fun. Currently (with few exceptions) radio does not offer that. You can claim this or that about the ratings, but overall, people are dissatisfied with radio and it's presentation, just like television and it's "flooding of the airwaves" with stupid reality shows. Look what happened to the wx channel and Direct TV. Great example there. It cannot be denied.

oldies76 said:

People notice that everytime they "shop" your frequency, it's the same songs, so they switch, tuneout or lower the volume. People do not like the same thing over and over and over again, even if it's over the long haul, not to mention short term exposure. They don't!

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You're comparing two different things. I once worked at a record store in a mall. But spent most of my career in radio. So I've had experience in both. Not the same thing, and customers at my store were different from the people who listened to me on the radio. People who listen to free music aren't the same as people who buy music. I think someone pointed that out to me earlier in this thread. The vast majority of people who listen to classic music want familiar favorites. They don't like change. They especially don't want change in terms of presentation. They don't want their DJs to change. They don't want anything to change. And they don't like variety. McDonalds is having problems with that now. Their sales are down because their menu is seen as "too complicated." Too many choices. Their sales are highest when they cut choice to the basics. That's not me talking. That's financial experts. Personally, I like their new clubhouse sandwich. I just had one today. But I'm in the minority, and I imagine it will go the way of McDonald's pizza.

Tibbs2 said:

BigA - I thought I was pretty clear that Hippie is doing fine. always room for better. Where are ya gittin your facts?

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Post#283 - update - BigA and David have a crystal ball and factual gossip. Bill your statements as accurate. What do I know. I have a red rubber ball. BigA, can you buy me a McD's Clubhouse Sandwich? Kinda out of my price point.

oldies76 said:

And a good way to attract more audience and "steal" from your competitors, is to play different music than your competitors, meaning more "lost hits" or a larger playlist with better variety and fun, true weekends. People like change, they like variety and fun, not constant monotony and a resemblance to their competitors. You are expected to be unique in nature, not the same as the others. Many, many people dislike Wal-Mart for this same reason. All stores look the same, just arranged right to left, or left to right, same thing. Stores are messy, unstocked. People want new things, new presentations, new ideas...not the same ole nonsense.

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Nice blanket statement.

If station XYZ is doing fine in comparison to a similarly-formatted station in the market, why should they change? In battle, the object is to force the opponent to change or modify.

Where is your proof that more "lost hits" or a "larger playlist" is the sole solution? Play more "lost hits" and watch the AQH take a hit.

The statement "people like change" is not applicable to commercial radio. The average radio consumer likes what they like and, if too many changes occur over a short period of time on their #1 listened-to station, they'll, likely, go somewhere else - perhaps to a non-commercial radio platform. Where in today's radio mantra is it stated that "You are expected to be unique in nature"? The classic hits format is doing well in its present dynamic in 17 of the top 20 markets (the exceptions being SF, PR & SD). Why change what's working?

I know that this has been stated before and often, here and in other threads, but the best way to keep your audience is to "play the hits" - no matter the musical format. If you want to play "deep cuts" or "lost hits", especially in a PPM market, do it between 12A - 5A. Do I get sick of hearing "Hotel California", "Sweet Home Alabama", "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" and "Don't Stop" among other songs offered by my favorite classic hits stations? Yes. Are the stations programming to satisfy me, personally? No.

As current and former broadcasters/programmers, we all know that we super-serve our P1s. Deviate from that basic strategy at your own peril.

DavidEduardo said:

I hope you know more about the business side of the department store than you did about the radio station you worked for. Endcaps and prime facings are generally paid for by manufacturers. The classic case is supermarkets where endcaps, eye level facings and inches of display are all heavily subsidized by the manufacturer... contingent of course on also producing adequate sales based on display size.

Most of those things, particularly endcaps and shelf talkers, are not there to produce variety... or new experiences. They are there to push impulse buys. They are there to make people spend on things they had not planned to buy when they came to the store. They are not analogous to radio playlists in any form or fashion.

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David -

I spent five years as a grocery manager for a national chain supermarket unit that did, an average, of $700K/week in sales. Your description of endcaps/facings is spot on. Are you sure you weren't a grocery manager/merchandiser in a previous life?

Lest we forget, the record industry has a history of paying for radio play (exposure), too. Used to be DJs got the cash. Then in one of its ultimate acts of hypocrisy, management and their buddies in government had the payola scandal and now the goodies go to management (and DJs are mostly computers).

DavidEduardo said:

I hope you know more about the business side of the department store than you did about the radio station you worked for. Endcaps and prime facings are generally paid for by manufacturers. The classic case is supermarkets where endcaps, eye level facings and inches of display are all heavily subsidized by the manufacturer... contingent of course on also producing adequate sales based on display size.

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Work in an off-price retailer, so it's up to us to make the presentations, endcaps and displays right to attract sales or to make the store look fresh.

DavidEduardo said:

DirecTV? They are at an all-time high in subscribers, but have started to suffer growth slowdown due to the increased costs brought on by the carriage costs of the programming providers... and by the desire of viewers to see programs on their own schedule via Roku, Apple TV, and Fire TV. The slowdown in growth is due to new distribution channels, not the programming itself.

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The Weather Channel is competing with WX Nation (or vice versa) and the word is (correct me if I'm off here) that people want the simplicity of wx forecasting and analysis, like WX Nation. They do not want the reality shows offered by the Weather Channel. In other words, just forecast the weather, especially with severe wx season beginning in parts of the country now.

With the emergence of WX Nation, DirecTV yanked the Weather Channel last year and only recently brought it back under the promise by the Weather Channel that it cut its reality shows by 50% by 2015.

Viewers remember the Weather Channel from the 1990's....simple and to the point, w/o all the hoopla and feature shows.
WXNation is like that now, basic and to the point.

BostonRandy said:

If you want to play "deep cuts" or "lost hits", especially in a PPM market, do it between 12A - 5A.

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I've been told that even playing these songs during the overnights or during weekends is not to the benefit of the station as well. This is where the disagreements begin. Never believed that playing just two lesser played songs per hour would cause much harm. To David and others, it does, especially in large markets. It's fruitless to counter this any longer. I'll just stick with the pleasures of small market radio and the variety they have to offer. To me (and to many listeners) this is the mom and pop of radio, the way radio should sound, not some corporate-type playlist playing over and over in different form on stations like K-Earth. That's not variety, it's staleness.

TheBigA said:

McDonalds is having problems with that now. Their sales are down because their menu is seen as "too complicated." Too many choices. Their sales are highest when they cut choice to the basics.

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Agreed. I believe McD's should cut their menu back to the basics. A hamburger, fries and a soda....keep the ice cream and apple pies for desert and maybe the McNuggets. In and Out Burger is that way...simple menu, inexpensive and LONG lines at the drive through, all day long. It was tough going there on my lunch break, but it's delicious!!

TheBigA said:

You're comparing two different things. I once worked at a record store in a mall. But spent most of my career in radio.

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Let me guess...Musicland

Tower Records was the favorite.....back in the day! Too bad they went under, great store.

oldies76 said:

With the emergence of WX Nation, DirecTV yanked the Weather Channel last year and only recently brought it back under the promise by the Weather Channel that it cut its reality shows by 50% by 2015.

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Keep in mind that reality shows are the reason why channels like History, Bravo, A&E, MTV, and many more have experienced huge growth. Music channels have cut back on music specialty shows because reality TV, aimed at the music demo, attracts more viewers. People ask why MTV doesn't do music anymore, and the answer is that reality TV attracts more viewers.

TheBigA said:

People ask why MTV doesn't do music anymore, and the answer is that reality TV attracts more viewers.

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Then why call it MTV anymore? I guess I have to mention the 80's again, this time for MTV. The best time for music videos, and or course, when MTV actually aired "music".

Thankfully there's VH1 classic as an alternative.

oldies76 said:

Then why call it MTV anymore? I guess I have to mention the 80's again, this time for MTV. The best time for music videos, and or course, when MTV actually aired "music".

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It's a brand. A multi-billion dollar brand. Why call it Radio Shack? They don't sell radios anymore.

Avid Listener said:

Look up the concept "hypothetical illustration". It might enlighten you.

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Hypothetical is one thing - doesn't exist anywhere so why are you using it is another. A hypothetical situation is only useful if it could actually occur, so please enlighten use as to where your hypothetical situation would ever actually exist.

oldies76 said:

Agreed. I believe McD's should cut their menu back to the basics. A hamburger, fries and a soda....keep the ice cream and apple pies for desert and maybe the McNuggets. In and Out Burger is that way...simple menu, inexpensive and LONG lines at the drive through, all day long. It was tough going there on my lunch break, but it's delicious!!

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Just like radio has done. Cut back on the playlist to only the known stars (hamburger, fries, McNuggets) and see the audience grow - just like McDonalds. Programming to the masses and setting the menu to the masses require the same thing - brevity and simplicity.

oldies76 said:

I've been told that even playing these songs during the overnights or during weekends is not to the benefit of the station as well. This is where the disagreements begin. Never believed that playing just two lesser played songs per hour would cause much harm. To David and others, it does, especially in large markets. It's fruitless to counter this any longer. I'll just stick with the pleasures of small market radio and the variety they have to offer. To me (and to many listeners) this is the mom and pop of radio, the way radio should sound, not some corporate-type playlist playing over and over in different form on stations like K-Earth. That's not variety, it's staleness.

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Two songs per hour is enough to cause issues without a doubt. It would impact TSL as it induces channel changing. The only control the radio listener has over the programming is the channel button, so a dud will cause a reach for the button, best known as "runoff". Same issue faced with long commercial breaks as well.

Funny you call radio "stale", with "corporate type playlists", yet in another post say that the key to McDonalds success is a short menu. McDonalds and radio are most successful when the reach the broadest audience and the recipe for achieving that are very similar - predictability and simplicity are proven winners.