Cumulus CHR's are the worst I've ever heard

atlantaboy said:

???

Cumulus's "track record" is just as good as Clear Channel, and far better than CBS

CBS is the corporation running stations "into the ground" - I can't think of one CBS CHR that's at or near the top of its market

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I don't like CBS's CHR's very much at all. I can get WNKS in Charlotte but rarely listen to it. I have a lot of respect for CBS, but Kiss 95.1 leaves a lot to be desired. It just sounds....second rate, overall. Not to mention they engage in one of my least favorite radio practices, music pitching, which is really annoying after listening to Channel 96.1, B-93.7, or even My 102.5 (who pitches, but very much less than Kiss).

I don't understand Cumulus's need to be so conservative, though, in EVERY market - I've never understood why they think what works in Atlanta necessarily makes sense in Providence, Kansas City, Charleston, etc...

carolinaradio said:

I don't like CBS's CHR's very much at all. I can get WNKS in Charlotte but rarely listen to it. I have a lot of respect for CBS, but Kiss 95.1 leaves a lot to be desired. It just sounds....second rate, overall. Not to mention they engage in one of my least favorite radio practices, music pitching, which is really annoying after listening to Channel 96.1, B-93.7, or even My 102.5 (who pitches, but very much less than Kiss).

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Through most of the '00s pretty much all large market CHRs pitched their music, even KIIS 102.7 in Los Angeles. Today, there are a few stragglers but more and more have stopped the practice.

carolinaradio said:

I don't understand Cumulus's need to be so conservative, though, in EVERY market - I've never understood why they think what works in Atlanta necessarily makes sense in Providence, Kansas City, Charleston, etc...

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I wonder this too. Actually Atlanta has one of the better Cumulus CHRs though. Most of them have been turned into mirror images of very small market ones like KBBQ 102.7 The Vibe in Fort Smith, Arkansas (Pop 72,000). There formula is no more than two currents out of every six songs played, and their definition of "current" is very loose. On KKWD Wild 104.9 in Oklahoma City current is basically anything since January 2012, and we are now in October. Most of their music is from 2008-2011, with focus on 2009 and 2010. Whats even worse is they've turned so many good Citadel stations into complete crap. Citadel's KKWD Wild 104.9 was very new music heavy so its really been quite a change for the station. Citadel would have been playing "Diamonds" by Rihanna while Cumulus is still playing "Run This Town".

Cumulus should really just sell its CHRs. It never was a good format for them before the Citadel merger. I was hoping they would learn from how Citadel did it instead of forcing their crappy formula on all the once great stations.

bchristi said:

Cumulus should really just sell its CHRs.

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Good idea - except that 90% of Cumulus CHRs are getting HIGH RATINGS :

Cumulus may play a lot of recurrents/golds, but a lot of Clear Channel CHRs play the same 10 currents over and over every hour

I'd rather listen to recurrents/gold tracks than hear the same 10 songs over and over and over...

atlantaboy said:

MattHollidaye OnAir said:

ChrisInMI said:

Cumulus' 97-5 Now FM in Lansing, MI is sounding a heck of a lot more like "97-5 Then FM" nowadays, with "then" meaning four to six months ago. Under Citadel, 97.5 had a pop-rock lean, which makes sense with nearby East Lansing being a university town, but they didn't neglect the biggest rhythmic hits and they still kept the mix relatively current. I was having dinner at a Pizza Hut the other night and that station was playing in the background. Of the nine or ten songs played, probably only two were actual current hits, and nothing more rhythmic than Cee-Lo's "F**k You" (which surprisingly was not the "Forget You") version. I actually preferred the Muzak Hot AC feed this restaurant used to run whenever I ate there before! Plus, Perez Hilton doesn't help their case. 97.5 and Hot AC sister WDVD in Detroit now sound virtually identical. And also, having what is essentially a glorified Hot AC when they already have an established mainstream AC (WFMK) as a sister station makes no sense to me.

On the other hand, WIOG in Saginaw still sounds damn good, at least music-wise. And they're all local. Of course, it could be just a matter of time before Cumulus also tanks them too.

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I'm surprised Cumulus haven't already ran them to the ground considering their track record.

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???

Cumulus's "track record" is just as good as Clear Channel, and far better than CBS

CBS is the corporation running stations "into the ground" - I can't think of one CBS CHR that's at or near the top of its market

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That may be true for CHR (or may not be, considering that KAMP-FM is in the Top 10 6+ and has been consistently over the past several books...that is, if you take 6+ ratings seriously), but explain to me how CBS is running radio "in the ground".

We have a situation here in Detroit where four of the five CBS Radio-owned stations in this market hold four of the top five spots 6+ AND hold significant leads in their respective target demos. Is that considered "running it to the ground"? In fact, WXYT-FM is one of, if not THE highest-rated sports station IN THE COUNTRY......and for some reason CBS is running them in the ground?

I know I'm way off topic here, but I just don't get it when you say CBS runs stations "into the ground". Preferably, I'll take CBS's Rhythmic-leaning CHRs (regardless of how stale and how second-rate they may sound) over Cumulus' anything-leaning CHR any day of the week. I'll even go as far as saying I'll take Clear Channel's CHRs over Cumulus.

I know you're gonna say something about us Rhythmic CHR lovers out there, but it's all a matter of personal taste. You, from what I read, would prefer Hot AC-leaning CHRs, and I respect that. However, there are some things that are NOT for everybody, and it just so happens that any CHR station owned by Cumulus is one of those things that a vast majority of posters here CAN'T STOMACH.

Because if that were the case, there wouldn't be as much posting about how "awful" Cumulus CHRs sound as there is now :

atlantaboy said:

Cumulus may play a lot of recurrents/golds, but a lot of Clear Channel CHRs play the same 10 currents over and over every hour

I'd rather listen to recurrents/gold tracks than hear the same 10 songs over and over and over...

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Different people have different tastes and Hot AC exists for people who want older music (within the last 5 years) with little emphasis on newer music, which is essential what Cumulus has turned their CHRs into. The difference between a true Hot AC and a Cumulus CHR is the variety of older songs they play. I would rather listen to today's music played over and over again than the narrow selection of overplayed songs from 2010 that they play. Once again, if they want to keep the focus on older music, increase variety. It still wouldn't be my cup of tea but then it would at least be tolerable to listen to.

And I also agree with the above poster in that I don't think any company out there does worse CHRs than Cumulus.

Little emphasis on newer music on Hot AC? Most Hot AC's are playing more currents than ever, and they actually make up around or more than 50% of the music an hour on the station. I'd say there is little emphasis on older music, not newer.

Personally, I would rather listen to a well-programmed Hot AC than a recurrent based CHR - when I go to Atlanta (which is pretty rare these days), I listen to Star 94 over Q100.

MattHollidaye OnAir said:

I know I'm way off topic here, but I just don't get it when you say CBS runs stations "into the ground". Preferably, I'll take CBS's Rhythmic-leaning CHRs (regardless of how stale and how second-rate they may sound) over Cumulus' anything-leaning CHR any day of the week. I'll even go as far as saying I'll take Clear Channel's CHRs over Cumulus.

I know you're gonna say something about us Rhythmic CHR lovers out there, but it's all a matter of personal taste. You, from what I read, would prefer Hot AC-leaning CHRs, and I respect that. However, there are some things that are NOT for everybody, and it just so happens that any CHR station owned by Cumulus is one of those things that a vast majority of posters here CAN'T STOMACH.

Because if that were the case, there wouldn't be as much posting about how "awful" Cumulus CHRs sound as there is now :

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Personally, I can't "stomach" most of the CBS CHRs - I'm just sticking up for Cumulus, because apparently, most posters on this board are single men with rhythmic-leaning tastes in music

In actual ratings, though, Cumulus is doing A LOT BETTER with their CHRs than CBS is (averaging all stations nationwide)

The rhythmic-leaning musical taste of most posters on this board definitely does not represent the average tast in music of CHR listeners nationwide - again, look on the I-Tunes chart, as well as the nationwide ratings of Cumulus vs. CBS CHRs - as well as the fact that in most markets with a mainstream and a Rhythmic-leaning CHR, the Rhythmic-leaning CHR has the lower ratings out of the two

atlantaboy said:

MattHollidaye OnAir said:

I know I'm way off topic here, but I just don't get it when you say CBS runs stations "into the ground". Preferably, I'll take CBS's Rhythmic-leaning CHRs (regardless of how stale and how second-rate they may sound) over Cumulus' anything-leaning CHR any day of the week. I'll even go as far as saying I'll take Clear Channel's CHRs over Cumulus.

I know you're gonna say something about us Rhythmic CHR lovers out there, but it's all a matter of personal taste. You, from what I read, would prefer Hot AC-leaning CHRs, and I respect that. However, there are some things that are NOT for everybody, and it just so happens that any CHR station owned by Cumulus is one of those things that a vast majority of posters here CAN'T STOMACH.

Because if that were the case, there wouldn't be as much posting about how "awful" Cumulus CHRs sound as there is now :

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Personally, I can't "stomach" most of the CBS CHRs - I'm just sticking up for Cumulus, because apparently, most posters on this board are single men with rhythmic-leaning tastes in music

In actual ratings, though, Cumulus is doing A LOT BETTER with their CHRs than CBS is (averaging all stations nationwide)

The rhythmic-leaning musical taste of most posters on this board definitely does not represent the average tast in music of CHR listeners nationwide - again, look on the I-Tunes chart, as well as the nationwide ratings of Cumulus vs. CBS CHRs - as well as the fact that in most markets with a mainstream and a Rhythmic-leaning CHR, the Rhythmic-leaning CHR has the lower ratings out of the two

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Well sorry for being a single man.... it's rough out here finding a woman who'll actually be committed to you and ONLY you :

LOL. Well I'm not single, I'm married, and despite what it may sound like, I don't prefer rhythmic leaning CHRs. I don't care for adult CHRs either. I prefer mainstream. Not having one where I am drives a lot of people crazy. Everyone hates local radio here because it all sucks.

bchristi said:

carolinaradio said:

I don't like CBS's CHR's very much at all. I can get WNKS in Charlotte but rarely listen to it. I have a lot of respect for CBS, but Kiss 95.1 leaves a lot to be desired. It just sounds....second rate, overall. Not to mention they engage in one of my least favorite radio practices, music pitching, which is really annoying after listening to Channel 96.1, B-93.7, or even My 102.5 (who pitches, but very much less than Kiss).

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Through most of the '00s pretty much all large market CHRs pitched their music, even KIIS 102.7 in Los Angeles. Today, there are a few stragglers but more and more have stopped the practice.

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I don't think it's a smart practice anymore with so many different ways to hear music. It's just more obvious....if people are listening to Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, downloads, competitors that don't pitch, etc. then listen to you, it just sounds...weird. Kiss takes great advantage of pitching. My 102.5 here in Greenville (actually a Hot AC) pitches just enough to where it's noticeable there's a difference, and gives them extra "punch", but it's not as ridiculous as Kiss. Just makes the station sound brighter. I really wish CBS would take it off of WNKS.

I'm not sure of how indicative iTunes can be of how CHR should be programmed - I mean, country tracks can chart pretty high on there, but CHR doesn't play them. iTunes users aren't exclusively the CHR target.

I don't like most of CBS's CHR stations, either. They sound like they're for teenagers and lean too rhythmic for my personal tastes. WNKS, as I mentioned, is somewhat of an exception, but I think they're rather amateurish sounding compared to WHQC (JMO).

Since we're mentioning backgrounds, FWIW, I'm a single man and I like Hot AC (supposedly a "soccer mom" format) and adult friendly CHR's (that aren't recurrent heavy), but balanced mainstream is good too. Not a big rhythmic fan. Fortunate to have an awesome Hot AC and balanced/adult-friendly CHR within listening range.

When I first started adding CHR stations to my list of stations I listen to online when I am working up here on my computer, I started with Cumulus and didn't mind, this was in the summer of 2010, and I had heard most of the songs on there already, so it wasn't too bad. I then started adding Clear Channel CHRs to my list and haven't looked back since. Now, it's rare that I listen to a Cumulus CHR, I hardly even listen to WRQX anymore! At one time, that was my favorite Hot AC in the country, now it's sister WQSM, which I don't listen to much anymore either, not sure why. I still think WRQX is a good station though, I'd rank it second to WQSM.

carolinaradio said:

I don't like most of CBS's CHR stations, either. They sound like they're for teenagers and lean too rhythmic for my personal tastes. WNKS, as I mentioned, is somewhat of an exception, but I think they're rather amateurish sounding compared to WHQC (JMO).

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I have to disagree with this. KZON, Arizona's leading CHR (which has beat out ALL stations in ratings a few times) sounds more "classy and mature" than the rest of the CHR's we have here. I'm not sure hw they do it, but this CHR has managed to find the best live & LOCAL employees, put together some of the finest promo drops, and they just have a way of doing things that make them sound like they are "a chr for grown folks with children." It's like a family station. The ClearChannel CHR sounds more "childish" with the way they edit the voices for the drops and the morning show also seems geared towards people in high school and jr. high. The other chr's we have also sound more childish as well.

Although I dislike how tight their playlist is in comparison to some other chr's, I believe that CBS's KZON has rightfully earned their top chr position in the valley. Even their music ID that shows up in vehicles or MP3 players are (often) professionally and thoughtfully programmed. I just get the feeling of "family" when I listen to them. Maybe a station with such employees and personality are rare. They should really use the slogan "The People's Station." And since they actually play a variety that attracts a diverse crowd in addition to being AZ's top chr, that slogan would fit them perfectly.

KDM 7000 said:

carolinaradio said:

I don't like most of CBS's CHR stations, either. They sound like they're for teenagers and lean too rhythmic for my personal tastes. WNKS, as I mentioned, is somewhat of an exception, but I think they're rather amateurish sounding compared to WHQC (JMO).

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I have to disagree with this. KZON, Arizona's leading CHR (which has beat out ALL stations in ratings a few times) sounds more "classy and mature" than the rest of the CHR's we have here.

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KZON is Rhythmic, not CHR (i. e. the Trey Songz, French Montana, Rhythmic recurrents, lack of Neon Trees, lack of Fun "Some Nights", etc.) - and Mediabase classifies it as Rhythmic...

If you're going to argue that KZON is really a mainstream CHR, then they're worse than Cumulus in terms of not playing the "hits" (2 of the Top 10 CHR tracks are nowhere on their playlist)

Phoenix has two CHRs - KZZP and KMVA

atlantaboy said:

KDM 7000 said:

carolinaradio said:

I don't like most of CBS's CHR stations, either. They sound like they're for teenagers and lean too rhythmic for my personal tastes. WNKS, as I mentioned, is somewhat of an exception, but I think they're rather amateurish sounding compared to WHQC (JMO).

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I have to disagree with this. KZON, Arizona's leading CHR (which has beat out ALL stations in ratings a few times) sounds more "classy and mature" than the rest of the CHR's we have here.

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KZON is Rhythmic, not CHR (i. e. the Trey Songz, French Montana, Rhythmic recurrents, lack of Neon Trees, lack of Fun "Some Nights", etc.) - and Mediabase classifies it as Rhythmic...

If you're going to argue that KZON is really a mainstream CHR, then they're worse than Cumulus in terms of not playing the "hits" (2 of the Top 10 CHR tracks are nowhere on their playlist)

Phoenix has two CHRs - KZZP and KMVA

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I guess you have a point. I had no idea they actually added French Montana since I haven't been listening as religiously as I used to (I've been listening to KVIT and sometimes KMVA lately). KZON often "misses" a few songs.

carolinaradio said:

Little emphasis on newer music on Hot AC? Most Hot AC's are playing more currents than ever, and they actually make up around or more than 50% of the music an hour on the station. I'd say there is little emphasis on older music, not newer.

Personally, I would rather listen to a well-programmed Hot AC than a recurrent based CHR - when I go to Atlanta (which is pretty rare these days), I listen to Star 94 over Q100.

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Agree with this point. Hot ACs can be different depending on the market. Some are recurrent based and others are current based. Nonetheless, I would rather listened to a well programmed Hot AC than a Cumulus CHR any day. KYIS in OKC is a hot AC and to me it sounds far more tolerable than recurrent-based CHR KKWD. I think a lot of it has to do with the variety of recurrents they play. Cumulus CHRs generally have a narrow selection of already overplayed songs, such as Bad Romance for instance or Cooler Than Me, two songs KKWD loves.

KDM, isn't CHR for teenagers anyway?

Well, ....... I'm not exactly sure. I thought I heard something about 18-35 once. Maybe I'm wrong. Now that I think of it, it's kind of silly to have adult formats for teenagers (unless they're gearing specifically towards 18 and 19 year olds).

Well, the target is 18-34. However, I do think that these stations are geared more for teens than older adults. I think the thing is that the better presented the station is, the wider the audience it draws. Although I don't know many people between the ages of 25 and 34, I would bet that those people would listen to CHR less than the 15-25 group. I am 18, and I think my CHR listening is probably at its peak. I am not saying though, that the format is exclusively for 15-25, but I bet that that's who about 80% of the audience is. I do wonder if the market research that Arbitron does would be completely turned on its head if Arbitron could measure listening habits of everyone. I too like Hot AC, but I'm leaning more CHR every day, but I'm also not afraid to listen to a well-programmed mainstream AC station either. Although I even listen to a small amount of oldies, I feel that when I hear today's CHR 30 years from now, I will look back and remember my last year of high school. While I know and really like some of today's oldies, I really won't have much to tie that music to. I thought young men were supposed to like alternative rock? That format is almost as low on my list as oldies, and I'm sure there are exceptions to every target audience rule put out by Arbitron.

atlantaboy said:

In actual ratings, though, Cumulus is doing A LOT BETTER with their CHRs than CBS is (averaging all stations nationwide)

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Many stations are still riding off their success under Citadel. Wait until Cumulus tweaks the remainder of the stations. KKWD-Oklahoma City was just tweaked at the beginning of September to be more in line with Cumulus' traditional top 40 formula. Before that it was current focused and hit focused like it always used to be. Lately they have been playing a lot more stuff from the early '00s and a few late '90s songs. Blackstreet - No Diggity has been playing several times per day lately. Their focus though is definitely 2006-2010 with a very narrow selection so songs are easily overplayed. If this were Clearchannel, I would suspect they were preparing to change to a rhythmic AC format, but being that its Cumulus, and most Cumulus stations are just that poorly programmed, I doubt there will be anything positive on that frequency for a long time.