Cumulus CHR's are the worst I've ever heard

The area where I live has one of the Citadel stations taken over by Cumulus (KKWD) Wild 104.9. KKWD used to be one of the best sounding pop-leaning rhythmic CHRs in my opinion back when it was owned by Citadel. They were always very current and sometimes edgy, and had personality. Having lived in a small market that had a Cumulus CHR, I am aware that they tend to be behind on what they play and focus on older stuff. For instance KBBQ 102.7 The Vibe in Fort Smith, Arkansas was still playing "Party Like A Rock Star" pretty heavily in 2010, a time when nobody else was playing it and the song itself was quite dated. (Like playing the Macarena in 2000). If anybody is familiar with that station, it sounds pretty much like an iPod with all the hits from the past 5 years on it shuffled.

Since moving back to Oklahoma City, I've found Cumulus has followed the same formula with the once-great KKWD, heavily focusing on hits from 2-5 years ago with currents sprinkled in here and there. What was once a great station now has no personality and sounds incredibly out of date like the typical small market CHR Cumulus was known for before the merger with Citadel. Wild used to always be the first in OKC to play new music but since Cumulus has taken over they are usually weeks behind KJ 103. Sorry Cumulus, we are nearing the end of 2012, not 2009 so I don't want to hear "Bad Romance" and "Bed Rock" every time I turn on the radio. Has Cumulus done this with all its CHR's they inherited from Citadel? Is there any particular reason Cumulus does their CHR's this way, especially now that they are in larger markets? It seems as if they are just using their generic small market formula for all the stations they have inherited.

KKWD today has only a 2.2 share when they dominated the ratings back when they were owned by Citadel and I can definitely see why. Bob FM is even doing better. Cumulus just needs to get out of the CHR business in larger markets if they can't do it right. Luckily OKC has KJYO and the rim-shot KVSP which both sound good.

Jan Jeffries, you wanna handle this one?

Um...you DO know that good isn't the goal. Cheap is.

I took a look at the playlist for the station in question. It is now straight out of the Jan Jeffries CHR philosophy. Recurrent/Gold heavy and being very conservative with adds by making sure they are at a certain position on the chart before adding them. That is unless it is a song by a big name. Typically no more than 6 currents an hour. Remember, in the interview he did a couple of years ago with Sean Ross on the old site, he said that those older familiar songs are the backbone of a station. I think that philosophy does work in small markets if there is no competition, but could be seen as boring in a market with more choices.

The Outsider said:

I took a look at the playlist for the station in question. It is now straight out of the Jan Jeffries CHR philosophy. Recurrent/Gold heavy and being very conservative with adds by making sure they are at a certain position on the chart before adding them. That is unless it is a song by a big name. Typically no more than 6 currents an hour. Remember, in the interview he did a couple of years ago with Sean Ross on the old site, he said that those older familiar songs are the backbone of a station. I think that philosophy does work in small markets if there is no competition, but could be seen as boring in a market with more choices.

Click to expand...

This philosophy is horrible for a CHR. It may work for a Hot AC but CHR is about being current and if I wanted to listen to last years music I have my iPod for that. Most CHR stations play just enough recurrents/gold that it's enjoyable to hear them when they come on. Cumulus stations are dominated by recurrents/gold with a few chart topping currents added in. If Cumulus can't do the format they should just get out of it. What's even more of a shame is how they are tweaking great stations they inherited from Citadel to this lame small-market version of the format, their ratings are tanking, yet they don't even seem to get the picture. What works in Paint Lick, KY doesn't in OKC or any other larger market.

bchristi said:

The Outsider said:

I took a look at the playlist for the station in question. It is now straight out of the Jan Jeffries CHR philosophy. Recurrent/Gold heavy and being very conservative with adds by making sure they are at a certain position on the chart before adding them. That is unless it is a song by a big name. Typically no more than 6 currents an hour. Remember, in the interview he did a couple of years ago with Sean Ross on the old site, he said that those older familiar songs are the backbone of a station. I think that philosophy does work in small markets if there is no competition, but could be seen as boring in a market with more choices.

Click to expand...

This philosophy is horrible for a CHR. It may work for a Hot AC but CHR is about being current and if I wanted to listen to last years music I have my iPod for that. Most CHR stations play just enough recurrents/gold that it's enjoyable to hear them when they come on. Cumulus stations are dominated by recurrents/gold with a few chart topping currents added in. If Cumulus can't do the format they should just get out of it. What's even more of a shame is how they are tweaking great stations they inherited from Citadel to this lame small-market version of the format, their ratings are tanking, yet they don't even seem to get the picture. What works in Paint Lick, KY doesn't in OKC or any other larger market.

Click to expand...

I love your reply. It is spot on and I agree completely. This is the exact same philosophy that Cumulus uses in my market, Huntsville, AL. I'm glad to hear we aren't the only ones with a TERRIBLE CHR, but knowing you aren't the only one doesn't always make you feel better about it does it? Here, we are lucky to get 4 or 5 currents an hour out of our supposed "Top 40" station and golds go all the way back to the 80's and 90's, yet they also own "Journey 93.3" here which is only 80's and 90's. What sense does that make? Our neighboring market, Birmingham, has a new Cumulus CHR 99.5 The Vibe that is trying to go up against a well established Clear Channel CHR 103.7 The Q. The Vibe sounds awesome musically! Its NOTHING like the typical Cumulus CHR formula, which begs the question. If you have to do that to beat your competition in Birmingham, why not do what works in all of your markets? I hope they lose the battle because if The Q loses and flips formats down the road leaving Cumulus to have CHR alone in that market, they will just turn it into the same old crap they do everywhere else and I don't wish this torture on anyone!

editthis said:

Jan Jeffries, you wanna handle this one?

Click to expand...

LOL! I wish there was a "like" button on the board I could hit for this!!

RollTide said:

bchristi said:

The Outsider said:

I took a look at the playlist for the station in question. It is now straight out of the Jan Jeffries CHR philosophy. Recurrent/Gold heavy and being very conservative with adds by making sure they are at a certain position on the chart before adding them. That is unless it is a song by a big name. Typically no more than 6 currents an hour. Remember, in the interview he did a couple of years ago with Sean Ross on the old site, he said that those older familiar songs are the backbone of a station. I think that philosophy does work in small markets if there is no competition, but could be seen as boring in a market with more choices.

Click to expand...

This philosophy is horrible for a CHR. It may work for a Hot AC but CHR is about being current and if I wanted to listen to last years music I have my iPod for that. Most CHR stations play just enough recurrents/gold that it's enjoyable to hear them when they come on. Cumulus stations are dominated by recurrents/gold with a few chart topping currents added in. If Cumulus can't do the format they should just get out of it. What's even more of a shame is how they are tweaking great stations they inherited from Citadel to this lame small-market version of the format, their ratings are tanking, yet they don't even seem to get the picture. What works in Paint Lick, KY doesn't in OKC or any other larger market.

Click to expand...

I love your reply. It is spot on and I agree completely. This is the exact same philosophy that Cumulus uses in my market, Huntsville, AL. I'm glad to hear we aren't the only ones with a TERRIBLE CHR, but knowing you aren't the only one doesn't always make you feel better about it does it? Here, we are lucky to get 4 or 5 currents an hour out of our supposed "Top 40" station and golds go all the way back to the 80's and 90's, yet they also own "Journey 93.3" here which is only 80's and 90's. What sense does that make? Our neighboring market, Birmingham, has a new Cumulus CHR 99.5 The Vibe that is trying to go up against a well established Clear Channel CHR 103.7 The Q. The Vibe sounds awesome musically! Its NOTHING like the typical Cumulus CHR formula, which begs the question. If you have to do that to beat your competition in Birmingham, why not do what works in all of your markets? I hope they lose the battle because if The Q loses and flips formats down the road leaving Cumulus to have CHR alone in that market, they will just turn it into the same old crap they do everywhere else and I don't wish this torture on anyone!

Click to expand...

What makes even less sense is that if Cumulus is departing from its formula to compete in Birmingham, why are they killing so many great former-Citadel stations by changing their formula that worked to the typical Cumulus small-market gold-based crap that's really meant for a small market without competing CHR or Hot AC stations? Cumulus should get the hint with KKWD which dropped to a 2.2 here on the last ratings. The station was once on fire and was #1 in the market despite only a 6kw signal. Now people just call it "Lame 104.9".

If they are focusing more on re-currents and less on currents, they aren't CHR/Pop or even Adult CHR. They're in Hot AC territory! If they're a CHR reporting station, they might have some trouble down the road.

semoochie said:

If they are focusing more on re-currents and less on currents, they aren't CHR/Pop or even Adult CHR. They're in Hot AC territory! If they're a CHR reporting station, they might have some trouble down the road.

Click to expand...

Agreed. One thing that separates them from Hot AC is the urban/rap they play. You would not hear "Paris" by Jay-Z or "Throw it in the Bag" by Fabolous on a Hot AC but KKWD plays them all the time. Cumulus has a Hot AC in OKC (98.9 Kiss FM) and I actually think it sounds very good, but Hot AC is also a much better fit for Cumulus and their philosophy.

Would agree if it was last year, CHR here KBEA "B100" used to be the exact same way, playing songs for 2-5 yrs ago, but Clear Channel flipped an Oldies station here, since then B100 has sounded a ton better, occasionally throwing in an older song, but they are really up to date on New Music, faster than the CC CHR here, and pretty focused on newer hits and not older ones like they were a year or two ago.

alexhanson said:

Would agree if it was last year, CHR here KBEA "B100" used to be the exact same way, playing songs for 2-5 yrs ago, but Clear Channel flipped an Oldies station here, since then B100 has sounded a ton better, occasionally throwing in an older song, but they are really up to date on New Music, faster than the CC CHR here, and pretty focused on newer hits and not older ones like they were a year or two ago.

Click to expand...

That sounds like KKWD Wild 104.9 here. Everytime they play a current, they always follow it with at least two songs more than a year old. They still have the nerve to use the slogan "All The Hits Now". It used to be only every once and a while you would hear stuff older than 9 months when Citadel owned the station. Now, probably one in 4 songs is from the last six months and the rest is older. Obviously yesterday's music isn't what people want to hear or their ratings wouldn't be tanking. Does the station get any kind of economic benefit for playing older music? The thing is OKC has a great sounding Clear Channel CHR in KJ 103 that is #1 in the market. Cumulus isn't even trying to compete. They should sell the station or flip it.

Cumulus' 97-5 Now FM in Lansing, MI is sounding a heck of a lot more like "97-5 Then FM" nowadays, with "then" meaning four to six months ago. Under Citadel, 97.5 had a pop-rock lean, which makes sense with nearby East Lansing being a university town, but they didn't neglect the biggest rhythmic hits and they still kept the mix relatively current. I was having dinner at a Pizza Hut the other night and that station was playing in the background. Of the nine or ten songs played, probably only two were actual current hits, and nothing more rhythmic than Cee-Lo's "F**k You" (which surprisingly was not the "Forget You") version. I actually preferred the Muzak Hot AC feed this restaurant used to run whenever I ate there before! Plus, Perez Hilton doesn't help their case. 97.5 and Hot AC sister WDVD in Detroit now sound virtually identical. And also, having what is essentially a glorified Hot AC when they already have an established mainstream AC (WFMK) as a sister station makes no sense to me.

On the other hand, WIOG in Saginaw still sounds damn good, at least music-wise. And they're all local. Of course, it could be just a matter of time before Cumulus also tanks them too.

95SX in Charleston, SC still sounds pretty good, considering it's Cumulus. They haven't wrecked it, musically, as badly as I thought they would.

I say when CK105 makes a flip to classic rock after the station they had put into a trust gets the new owner taking over WIOG will probably go downhill.

ChrisInMI said:

Cumulus' 97-5 Now FM in Lansing, MI is sounding a heck of a lot more like "97-5 Then FM" nowadays, with "then" meaning four to six months ago. Under Citadel, 97.5 had a pop-rock lean, which makes sense with nearby East Lansing being a university town, but they didn't neglect the biggest rhythmic hits and they still kept the mix relatively current. I was having dinner at a Pizza Hut the other night and that station was playing in the background. Of the nine or ten songs played, probably only two were actual current hits, and nothing more rhythmic than Cee-Lo's "F**k You" (which surprisingly was not the "Forget You") version. I actually preferred the Muzak Hot AC feed this restaurant used to run whenever I ate there before! Plus, Perez Hilton doesn't help their case. 97.5 and Hot AC sister WDVD in Detroit now sound virtually identical. And also, having what is essentially a glorified Hot AC when they already have an established mainstream AC (WFMK) as a sister station makes no sense to me.

On the other hand, WIOG in Saginaw still sounds damn good, at least music-wise. And they're all local. Of course, it could be just a matter of time before Cumulus also tanks them too.

Click to expand...

It's a shame Cumulus is ruining great stations all over the country.

KKWD Wild 104.9 used to lean heavily rhythmic and wouild play all the songs nobody else played. They also played a lot of "club hits" that may not have been big Top 40 hits back when they were owned by Citadel. They also didn't play anything more than six months old very often. Today, under Cumulus, Nicki Minaj's "Starships" is one of their more current songs, and for this station I consider anything 2012 current as probably 6 out of every 10 songs is from the 2008-2011 range. They have completely ignored "Beez in the Trap" which Citadel's KKWD would have been all over. They have only recently started playing "Pound the Alarm" but rarely play it and instead play "Starships" or even "Bed Rock". Cumulus also seems to really like "Forget You" by Cee-Lo.

Is there any specific reason Cumulus is so heavy on older music? Their CHR stations in small towns have been that way for years but is there any reason they are tweaking stations in larger markets all across the country to this horrible format? It's clear that its not what people want. KKWD's ratings have taken a nosedive since Cumulus tweaked the format.

ChrisInMI said:

Cumulus' 97-5 Now FM in Lansing, MI is sounding a heck of a lot more like "97-5 Then FM" nowadays, with "then" meaning four to six months ago. Under Citadel, 97.5 had a pop-rock lean, which makes sense with nearby East Lansing being a university town, but they didn't neglect the biggest rhythmic hits and they still kept the mix relatively current. I was having dinner at a Pizza Hut the other night and that station was playing in the background. Of the nine or ten songs played, probably only two were actual current hits, and nothing more rhythmic than Cee-Lo's "F**k You" (which surprisingly was not the "Forget You") version. I actually preferred the Muzak Hot AC feed this restaurant used to run whenever I ate there before! Plus, Perez Hilton doesn't help their case. 97.5 and Hot AC sister WDVD in Detroit now sound virtually identical. And also, having what is essentially a glorified Hot AC when they already have an established mainstream AC (WFMK) as a sister station makes no sense to me.

On the other hand, WIOG in Saginaw still sounds damn good, at least music-wise. And they're all local. Of course, it could be just a matter of time before Cumulus also tanks them too.

Click to expand...

I'm surprised Cumulus haven't already ran them to the ground considering their track record. Surprisingly, WDVD is doing pretty well even with Perez Hilton in their lineup. It's only a matter of time before it all goes downhill, though...

Here's a sample playlist for the station in question in reverse order of the songs actually played,
Ne-yo -Let Me Love You Until You Learn to Love Yourself
Justin Bieber - As Long As You Love Me
Lupe Fiasco - Out of My Head
Kid Cudy - Day N Night. I wonder if this thread belongs on the rhythmic board as the station in question is actually a rhythmic? This actually sounds better than the other two Cumulus rhythmics I've heard, KVYB Santa Barbara and WWKL Harrisburg. Another addition to the playlist, top of hour promo was Usher - Scream and Carlie Ray Jebson - Call Me Maybe into Nicki Minaj - Pound the Alarm. This doesn't look that bad so far. Maybe I should tune into WWKL and KVYB to see if they are sounding better now. Not being a rhythmic listener, they played a bunch of songs I had never heard before that were mostly hip-hop when I checked last. Now playing Taio Cruz - Dynamite and looks like they will play Elly Gulding - Lights next based on what the announcer said. About WZRR, I actually think they are kind of boring, but WZYP is much worse. They aren't even a CHR, they are the worst excuse for one I've ever heard! One thing I do like about WZRR is there power rotation seems to be a little longer than most, about 3 hours instead of 2. Looks like I can't monitor anymore, could someone log on in the next hour or so and post the playlist from there player? For some reason, my screen reader doesn't read the player anymore. Well, song is ending soon, I think I can get one more song in, and it will be Rihanna - disturbia, only the second song I could see a problem with, the other being Kid Cudy. Update, seems they run 3 songs from the last year and a half, then one song from 2008-2010.

MattHollidaye OnAir said:

ChrisInMI said:

Cumulus' 97-5 Now FM in Lansing, MI is sounding a heck of a lot more like "97-5 Then FM" nowadays, with "then" meaning four to six months ago. Under Citadel, 97.5 had a pop-rock lean, which makes sense with nearby East Lansing being a university town, but they didn't neglect the biggest rhythmic hits and they still kept the mix relatively current. I was having dinner at a Pizza Hut the other night and that station was playing in the background. Of the nine or ten songs played, probably only two were actual current hits, and nothing more rhythmic than Cee-Lo's "F**k You" (which surprisingly was not the "Forget You") version. I actually preferred the Muzak Hot AC feed this restaurant used to run whenever I ate there before! Plus, Perez Hilton doesn't help their case. 97.5 and Hot AC sister WDVD in Detroit now sound virtually identical. And also, having what is essentially a glorified Hot AC when they already have an established mainstream AC (WFMK) as a sister station makes no sense to me.

On the other hand, WIOG in Saginaw still sounds damn good, at least music-wise. And they're all local. Of course, it could be just a matter of time before Cumulus also tanks them too.

Click to expand...

I'm surprised Cumulus haven't already ran them to the ground considering their track record.

Click to expand...

???

Cumulus's "track record" is just as good as Clear Channel, and far better than CBS

CBS is the corporation running stations "into the ground" - I can't think of one CBS CHR that's at or near the top of its market

atlantaboy said:

MattHollidaye OnAir said:

ChrisInMI said:

Cumulus' 97-5 Now FM in Lansing, MI is sounding a heck of a lot more like "97-5 Then FM" nowadays, with "then" meaning four to six months ago. Under Citadel, 97.5 had a pop-rock lean, which makes sense with nearby East Lansing being a university town, but they didn't neglect the biggest rhythmic hits and they still kept the mix relatively current. I was having dinner at a Pizza Hut the other night and that station was playing in the background. Of the nine or ten songs played, probably only two were actual current hits, and nothing more rhythmic than Cee-Lo's "F**k You" (which surprisingly was not the "Forget You") version. I actually preferred the Muzak Hot AC feed this restaurant used to run whenever I ate there before! Plus, Perez Hilton doesn't help their case. 97.5 and Hot AC sister WDVD in Detroit now sound virtually identical. And also, having what is essentially a glorified Hot AC when they already have an established mainstream AC (WFMK) as a sister station makes no sense to me.

On the other hand, WIOG in Saginaw still sounds damn good, at least music-wise. And they're all local. Of course, it could be just a matter of time before Cumulus also tanks them too.

Click to expand...

I'm surprised Cumulus haven't already ran them to the ground considering their track record.

Click to expand...

???

Cumulus's "track record" is just as good as Clear Channel, and far better than CBS

CBS is the corporation running stations "into the ground" - I can't think of one CBS CHR that's at or near the top of its market

Click to expand...

WXRK or KAMP are nowhere near WHTZ or KIIS? Not sure why WODS is taking so long to get DJs on the air, I don't think they have a chance if they're not going to get DJs on that station.