• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

The great Wave/KOST fight of the 2010s rages on!!!

R

RBRadioWaves

Developments from KTWV. Bryan Simmons now has a permanent shift Saturday 12 noon-5 pm. To me, that is excellent!!!

Now, my take on the two stations.

KTWV: Now, I'll admit it. KTWV is among the greatest stations in LA. It actually has CHARACTER, and feels like the old KOST. It's softer then most AC's in the US, and slightly gold-leaning, but not enough to tackle KEarth 101. The DJs are nice, and relaxing.

KOST: KOST, meanwhile, remains in its sense of mediocrity, while trying to regain the good old days. (During the 1:00 hour today, "California Dreaming" played. Not many ACs have ANY 60s songs on the playlist, let alone an AC owned by Clear Channel.) Honestly, when you have only 2/5 of your "Dream Team" left (with all of those gone getting jobs at your arch-rival), your station is too far gone.
 
Is there really a fight?
 
Well KOST is still the AC market leader, but will they stay there? They were not getting super-rosy numbers before the Christmas format which at the time seemed to indicate some listener dissatisfaction. Clear Channel seems to have taken a similar route here that they did in New York City where they gutted the veterans, tracked more shifts and hired new talent at much lower salaries. While KOST hasn't voice-tracked as extensively as New York's WLTW--where Delilah handles nights and overnights are tracked as well, KOST doesn't even try to pretend the overnight show has anyone manning the mic. They have continued to be the AC leader in LA by default. KTWV is not what I would consider a head to head competitor, it does want to win in the same demos and they have seen some better ratings in some of those demos. They came up at Christmas too and that may have gotten them noticed by listeners who are tired of the way KOST sounds. The Wave is more soulful, that's for sure and sounds more adult while remaining a cool sounding station. Bryan Simmons old shift at KOST just doesn't sound much like KOST anymore.(haven't been able to warm to the new guy). Listening to him and then Simmons when he was substituting on KTWV, well, someone at KOST wasn't thinking right.

Here's a question, since this is KOST's 30th anniversary of going to the AC format, will they have anything special, any celebrations? Haven't heard any mention of it like in the past. The Wave and KRTH are celebrating their anniversary's. Sad to think that if they do, most of the people who got them there will be absent.
 
calguy said:
Well KOST is still the AC market leader, but will they stay there? They were not getting super-rosy numbers before the Christmas format which at the time seemed to indicate some listener dissatisfaction. Clear Channel seems to have taken a similar route here that they did in New York City where they gutted the veterans, tracked more shifts and hired new talent at much lower salaries. While KOST hasn't voice-tracked as extensively as New York's WLTW--where Delilah handles nights and overnights are tracked as well, KOST doesn't even try to pretend the overnight show has anyone manning the mic. They have continued to be the AC leader in LA by default. KTWV is not what I would consider a head to head competitor, it does want to win in the same demos and they have seen some better ratings in some of those demos. They came up at Christmas too and that may have gotten them noticed by listeners who are tired of the way KOST sounds. The Wave is more soulful, that's for sure and sounds more adult while remaining a cool sounding station. Bryan Simmons old shift at KOST just doesn't sound much like KOST anymore.(haven't been able to warm to the new guy). Listening to him and then Simmons when he was substituting on KTWV, well, someone at KOST wasn't thinking right.

Here's a question, since this is KOST's 30th anniversary of going to the AC format, will they have anything special, any celebrations? Haven't heard any mention of it like in the past. The Wave and KRTH are celebrating their anniversary's. Sad to think that if they do, most of the people who got them there will be absent.
Click to expand...

The Wave's anniversary signifies 25 years since the Valentine's Day Massacre of KMET.
 
ChannelFlipper said:
The Wave's anniversary signifies 25 years since the Valentine's Day Massacre of KMET.
Click to expand...

Hardly a massacre, though. The KMET staff knew that the end was near and Metromedia was quite open about the need for a format shift. In fact, some of the KMET staffers submitted format ideas to the team that included Metromedia management, Frank Cody and Owen Leach. The new format evolved out of discussions of all the alternatives.
 
Really, KTWV seems to be the go-to for ex-KOSTers. KTWV seems to be the throwback-eclectic AC, with some smooth jazz. KOST drops somebody, they're on KTWV within a year. With Smooth Jazz moving to HD and Satellite radio, KTWV took a unique direction to attempt to tackle Jhani Kaye's ex-station. He SAW the ship hit the iceberg, and began adjusting to take in those who fled or were thrown off.

Prediction: If KTWV DOES go belly-up, it's going AC to attempt to take KOST on. If KOST goes belly up, KTWV will become KOST. It's a cycle of replacement.
 
I think a hole exists for CBS to slowly evolve KTWV into an AC/Hot AC hybrid that goes after both KOST and KBIG. The latter is more of an Adult Top 40 station and has a lot of rhythmic product (Rihanna, LMFAO, Usher, etc) which is certainly market appropriate, but I also think it presents an opportunity for CBS to pull KTWV over to the edge of Hot AC.
 
RBRadioWaves said:
He SAW the ship hit the iceberg, and began adjusting to take in those who fled or were thrown off.
Click to expand...

That was an ice cube, not an iceberg. Post-Holiday, KOST is running 10% to 15% above its 2011 levels in 25-54. And they are flanked by KBIG, which is only a few tenths of a share point behind them in a #1 and #2 position for January and the first part of February.

Prediction: If KTWV DOES go belly-up, it's going AC to attempt to take KOST on. If KOST goes belly up, KTWV will become KOST. It's a cycle of replacement.
Click to expand...

KTWV is flat at the point they occupied all of last year, with no signs of any growth. KOST is hardly going to go "belly up" as it is the #1 sales-demo station in the #1 revenue market.
 
justpassingthough said:
I think a hole exists for CBS to slowly evolve KTWV into an AC/Hot AC hybrid that goes after both KOST and KBIG. The latter is more of an Adult Top 40 station and has a lot of rhythmic product (Rihanna, LMFAO, Usher, etc) which is certainly market appropriate, but I also think it presents an opportunity for CBS to pull KTWV over to the edge of Hot AC.
Click to expand...

In the hot AC area, KBIG is doing the only variant that works. The market is over 50% Hispanic in 18-34, so less rhythmic format would underindex severely among Latinos, would do terrible among the Black population, would probably fare poorly in the 12% of the market that is Asian, and not do very well in the 10% that are non-Hispanic and non-Asian immigrants (mostly from Europe where dance and rhythmic rule) leaving about 20% of the market as a target. Right now, 40% of the KBIG cume is Hispanic... meaning they really overindex among English dominant Hispanics.
 
DavidEduardo said:
RBRadioWaves said:
He SAW the ship hit the iceberg, and began adjusting to take in those who fled or were thrown off.
Click to expand...

That was an ice cube, not an iceberg. Post-Holiday, KOST is running 10% to 15% above its 2011 levels in 25-54. And they are flanked by KBIG, which is only a few tenths of a share point behind them in a #1 and #2 position for January and the first part of February.

Prediction: If KTWV DOES go belly-up, it's going AC to attempt to take KOST on. If KOST goes belly up, KTWV will become KOST. It's a cycle of replacement.
Click to expand...

KTWV is flat at the point they occupied all of last year, with no signs of any growth. KOST is hardly going to go "belly up" as it is the #1 sales-demo station in the #1 revenue market.
Click to expand...

Ah, c'mon David, why do you always have to bring up such non-relevant facts like revenues and sales demos? Like that means anything.
 
ChannelFlipper said:
Ah, c'mon David, why do you always have to bring up such non-relevant facts like revenues and sales demos? Like that means anything.
Click to expand...

Uh, er... well, I am trying to get the Tea Party, liberals and conservatives into my answer since nearly every other post does... but...
 
DavidEduardo said:
justpassingthough said:
I think a hole exists for CBS to slowly evolve KTWV into an AC/Hot AC hybrid that goes after both KOST and KBIG. The latter is more of an Adult Top 40 station and has a lot of rhythmic product (Rihanna, LMFAO, Usher, etc) which is certainly market appropriate, but I also think it presents an opportunity for CBS to pull KTWV over to the edge of Hot AC.
Click to expand...

In the hot AC area, KBIG is doing the only variant that works. The market is over 50% Hispanic in 18-34, so less rhythmic format would underindex severely among Latinos, would do terrible among the Black population, would probably fare poorly in the 12% of the market that is Asian, and not do very well in the 10% that are non-Hispanic and non-Asian immigrants (mostly from Europe where dance and rhythmic rule) leaving about 20% of the market as a target. Right now, 40% of the KBIG cume is Hispanic... meaning they really overindex among English dominant Hispanics.
Click to expand...

I should have been more specific and said that while KBIG has a rhythmic lean to their variation of Hot AC- I think it would be wise for KTWV to go after KOST and KBIG with an AC/Hot AC hybrid that also leans rhythmic. Certainly, as you pointed out, the demos are there to support such a station, as has been seen by the success of KBIG, as of late.

Every other Rhythmic AC or Rhythmic Hot AC that has come and gone in this market, has just been programmed poorly, in my opinion. KBIG is actually programmed better than any Hot AC I've heard recently. Its extremely on target for this market. I don't generally listen to or like the Hot AC format, in general, but I actually find myself listening to KBIG quite a bit.
 
I understand what you meant kinda like CBS WWFS in New York. They have a AC/Hot AC format. Im actually enjoying KTWV's format but when it comes to a flip more than likely it will be full blown AC. I dont see them becoming a clone of KHHT.

I also agree on the Rhythmic AC format. All of them have been poorly programmed. KBIG was the only one that lasted the longest. Only thing that screwed them up was adding Delilah again. KMVN had so many issues with their music it was sad. It was sounding good for a few months before the LMA. Its funny that the PD who turned KMVN into a Oldies station is programming KISQ in SF and it performing better. Market wise both LA and SF are different.
 
wdb2003 said:
I understand what you meant kinda like CBS WWFS in New York. They have a AC/Hot AC format. Im actually enjoying KTWV's format but when it comes to a flip more than likely it will be full blown AC. I dont see them becoming a clone of KHHT.

I also agree on the Rhythmic AC format. All of them have been poorly programmed. KBIG was the only one that lasted the longest. Only thing that screwed them up was adding Delilah again. KMVN had so many issues with their music it was sad. It was sounding good for a few months before the LMA. Its funny that the PD who turned KMVN into a Oldies station is programming KISQ in SF and it performing better. Market wise both LA and SF are different.
Click to expand...
Agreed KTWV is too Soft AC to even match up to KHHT Hot 92.3. Hell I'm falling out of my chair reading your post :D. Then again yeah wdb2003 you've really hit the nail on the head. As for Rhythmic AC let's just say Los Angeles may have outgrown the format that's just my opinion so don't shoot the messager lol ::).
 
BJordan said:
wdb2003 said:
I understand what you meant kinda like CBS WWFS in New York. They have a AC/Hot AC format. Im actually enjoying KTWV's format but when it comes to a flip more than likely it will be full blown AC. I dont see them becoming a clone of KHHT.

I also agree on the Rhythmic AC format. All of them have been poorly programmed. KBIG was the only one that lasted the longest. Only thing that screwed them up was adding Delilah again. KMVN had so many issues with their music it was sad. It was sounding good for a few months before the LMA. Its funny that the PD who turned KMVN into a Oldies station is programming KISQ in SF and it performing better. Market wise both LA and SF are different.
Click to expand...
Agreed KTWV is too Soft AC to even match up to KHHT Hot 92.3. Hell I'm falling out of my chair reading your post :D. Then again yeah wdb2003 you've really hit the nail on the head. As for Rhythmic AC let's just say Los Angeles may have outgrown the format that's just my opinion so don't shoot the messager lol ::).
Click to expand...

Yes. I finally gave this station a listen online. Man, I'd fall asleep on the expressway with this on in my car.
 
You guys are missing the point all together when it comes to the Wave. You're comparing apples to oranges. The Wave doesn't' aspire to be as up as some of these stations you're comparing them too in either music or presentation, and it's not altogether that "slow" at time either. It's not a Rhythmic AC in the true sense of the designation. It's splitting the difference with a blend of Smooth Jazz, R&B and AC. It's a hybrid. They obviously wanted to try and preserve as much of what was left of the Smooth Jazz audience and it's more up scale advertisers while trying to bring in new cume, larger cume and eventually a larger share of their target demos. They can also attack KOST from two angles. While they don't really compete musically or style wise with KBIG, they can damage KOST with The Wave and KRTH which has been playing a lot of "newer" songs, "today's oldies" as they bill them. It's a lot of the product from the 80's that KOST plays. Plus, KOST has it's weaknesses. They just need to be exploited a little bit better.
 
You do have a point calguy about KRTH and KTWV both moving in on KOST listeners. I was shocked when I heard Selena on KRTH.
 
wdb2003 said:
You do have a point calguy about KRTH and KTWV both moving in on KOST listeners. I was shocked when I heard Selena on KRTH.
Click to expand...

And I should have said the 80's and the 90's as Selena is about mid 90's. If you go back to the 70's & 80's, Oldies stations then would start playing an oldie when it was about 3 years old. Now it seems that listeners have been trained to think that an oldies station can't play anything the less then 30 years old. But think about it, you have to move forward in time with your audience, so it seems to me to be a natural progression to update the library with newer songs. You just need to get the right songs and the right mix or it sounds weird to today's listeners.
 
Yeah you do have to move on to keep up with the times despite it being Oldies. I also heard Janet Jackson's "Miss You Much" and "Come Back To Me" a few weeks back and it sounded pretty good on KRTH.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.
Back
Top Bottom