ROCK DEAD in 2012...??

sdh483 said:

BTW, Dave Grohl is fond of Shrillex. Did you also see the collaboration between FF and Deadmau5? No, it wasn't great, but it nullifies your quote of Dave sounding like the "get off my lawn" guy.

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But doesn't that make the line Grohl is drawing in the sand even more arbitrary?

If Skrillex puts some beats and sound effects together, that's artistry, but if some producer puts beats, sound effects, and Britney's auto-tuned voice together, that's crap?

I just don't get why Grohl has to put down someone else's creation to build up the things he likes.

I also don't get how Grohl somehow became the ambassador of rock and roll, and the judge of what makes good music. The Foo Fighters are the ultimate example of a band that only became popular because of who they were. Take out Grohl's presence in Nirvana, and the Foo's first singles ("This Is A Call" and "I'll Stick Around") just blend in with the other forgettable grunge knockoffs of that era.

The Foo Fighters, along with RHCP, have been living off of the Alternative and Active Rock formats' 90's fixation for years. Neither band has put out anything original in years and years (I might argue that the Foos never put out anything original.) They just keep recycling their old material because their fans (and radio stations) let them get away with it.

Disclaimer: This is more about dislike of Grohl and the "old guard" of rock than any judgment about new rock on CHR. I like Gotye, I love Fun, I love Skrillex. But the only two Foo Fighters songs I have ever found memorable are the very un-rock Walking After You and their cover of Baker Street.

S said:

The Foo Fighters are the ultimate example of a band that only became popular because of who they were.  Take out Grohl's presence in Nirvana, and the Foo's first singles ("This Is A Call" and "I'll Stick Around") just blend in with the other forgettable grunge knockoffs of that era. 

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I agree that Grohl shouldn't be considered the "ambassador of rock and roll", but I do respect him. Yes, he was in Nirvana, but the Foo Fighters sound is pretty far away from Nirvana. He took it on himself to do something different and I don't think he's tried to ride his Nirvana fame. The Foo Fighters are definately not grunge. If anything, they're one of the closest bands to "classic rock" around, but still sound fresh. I like quite a bit of their music, but will admit that they aren't too adventurous. A lot of their albums/songs have a very similar sound.

Oh, and, to make sure you don't misread this. I like a lot of the newer bands too - Gotye, Fun, Skillrex, Young the Giant, etc. My problem is there's no where to hear them on the radio!!! (in Greenville, SC, at least).

awp69 said:

S said:

The Foo Fighters are the ultimate example of a band that only became popular because of who they were. Take out Grohl's presence in Nirvana, and the Foo's first singles ("This Is A Call" and "I'll Stick Around") just blend in with the other forgettable grunge knockoffs of that era.

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I agree that Grohl shouldn't be considered the "ambassador of rock and roll", but I do respect him. Yes, he was in Nirvana, but the Foo Fighters sound is pretty far away from Nirvana. He took it on himself to do something different and I don't think he's tried to ride his Nirvana fame. The Foo Fighters are definately not grunge. If anything, they're one of the closest bands to "classic rock" around, but still sound fresh. I like quite a bit of their music, but will admit that they aren't too adventurous. A lot of their albums/songs have a very similar sound.

Oh, and, to make sure you don't misread this. I like a lot of the newer bands too - Gotye, Fun, Skillrex, Young the Giant, etc. My problem is there's no where to hear them on the radio!!! (in Greenville, SC, at least).

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Oh, if you want to hear Gotye, listen to WMYI between 12am and 6am. ha!

carolinaradio said:

Oh, if you want to hear Gotye, listen to WMYI between 12am and 6am. ha!

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As much as local (and non-local) personalities are nice, I wish WMYI would play the national feed when I'm NOT sleeping.

awp69 said:

I agree that Grohl shouldn't be considered the "ambassador of rock and roll", but I do respect him. Yes, he was in Nirvana, but the Foo Fighters sound is pretty far away from Nirvana. He took it on himself to do something different and I don't think he's tried to ride his Nirvana fame. The Foo Fighters are definately not grunge. If anything, they're one of the closest bands to "classic rock" around, but still sound fresh. I like quite a bit of their music, but will admit that they aren't too adventurous. A lot of their albums/songs have a very similar sound.

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I don't think Grohl was trying to ride his Nirvana fame, but his Nirvana fame certainly did distinguish the Foo Fighters from any other grunge/post-grunge band starting out at that time. It gave them attention and credibility that other bands lacked.

Yeah I guess I can see a bit of the classic rock influence. The Foos till sound grunge-y to me, but certainly a lot more like Vitalogy-era Pearl Jam than Nevermind-era Nirvana.

S said:

I don't think Grohl was trying to ride his Nirvana fame, but his Nirvana fame certainly did distinguish the Foo Fighters from any other grunge/post-grunge band starting out at that time.  It gave them attention and credibility that other bands lacked. 

Yeah I guess I can see a bit of the classic rock influence.  The Foos till sound grunge-y to me, but certainly a lot more like Vitalogy-era Pearl Jam than Nevermind-era Nirvana.

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Some people still do lump them in with grunge. I guess I just don't see it. Whenever I listen to our local "new rock" station, which is actually a horribly programmed active rock station, they play almost nothing but grunge/hard rock and the Foo Fighters actually stick out as something that doesn't sound the same (and I can tolerate amongst today's Slipknot/Saliva/Staind/Chevelle crap and the Soundgarden/Nirvana grunge of the past). I actually liked some grunge growing up, but it wore thin as I got older and today's harder take on the genre is garbage.

Not saying they're the most inventive band in the world, but the Foo Fighters go against today's grunge/hard rock grain IMO (thankfully).

Not exactly a rock song, but We the Kings' newest hit "Say You Like Me" could be a gateway for more rock and pop-rock songs find itself way back on CHR.

I think that song has already peaked - I liked it, but it was (as stated in another thread) ignored by most of the larger companies, so it didn't have a chance, really.

awp69 said:

S said:

I don't think Grohl was trying to ride his Nirvana fame, but his Nirvana fame certainly did distinguish the Foo Fighters from any other grunge/post-grunge band starting out at that time. It gave them attention and credibility that other bands lacked.

Yeah I guess I can see a bit of the classic rock influence. The Foos till sound grunge-y to me, but certainly a lot more like Vitalogy-era Pearl Jam than Nevermind-era Nirvana.

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Some people still do lump them in with grunge. I guess I just don't see it. Whenever I listen to our local "new rock" station, which is actually a horribly programmed active rock station, they play almost nothing but grunge/hard rock and the Foo Fighters actually stick out as something that doesn't sound the same (and I can tolerate amongst today's Slipknot/Saliva/Staind/Chevelle crap and the Soundgarden/Nirvana grunge of the past). I actually liked some grunge growing up, but it wore thin as I got older and today's harder take on the genre is garbage.

Not saying they're the most inventive band in the world, but the Foo Fighters go against today's grunge/hard rock grain IMO (thankfully).

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I would still pick grunge over awful 80s hair pop metal rock or whatever you call it.

Thought I'd bump this thread since B93.7 was mentioned a few times earlier in the whole pop-rock debate.

The station recently got a new PD who apparently came from a heavily leaning rhythmic station which concerned me that they'd go even further in that direction. Ironically, the station's been adding more pop-rock songs that have long been ignored by the station.

Fun. has been a huge hit in many places for a while now, but, to my knowledge, it just started getting played here this week. One of the changes the PD appears to have made is to play the top requested song at the top of every hour. Today that song has been Fun. - just DAYS after it got a bit more rotation (honestly I heard it for the first time during the day yesterday). Hmmm...maybe that's the kind of music more people want to hear!

To me this is a huge kick in the ass to those PDs that think people don't like pop-rock and all they want to hear is the latest urban dance song or Katy Perry.

The station also has added Coldplay and newer Foster the People songs that have been long been ignored as well as Train's latest hit. Sure, they still have those other songs too. But it's a much better balance so far.

Hope, at least in our area, this signals a trend that pop-rock isn't dead.

Just learned today that lack of rock on CHR is nothing new...look at CHR charts all throughout the 70s - tons of soft pop/disco, and very little rock - in fact, most big rock bands from the 70s barely charted on pop, or did so with only a select few of their hits - and the 70s is probably the decade people equate most with rock being huge

Point is, just because rock isn't big on CHR doesn't mean rock isn't big - CHR is a pop format, and there are rock-formatted stations for the sole purpose of playing rock

Using the 70s as an example, how successful a rock band is on the pop charts has absolutely nothing to do with how "big" the rock band will be perceived to be - now and in the future

Even if it was the minority of the playlist, there was more rock on Top 40 in the 70s than today. Think of any popular 70s rock band, even if most of their airplay was on AOR, chances are they had songs crossover to the pop chart as well.

Jay F said:

Even if it was the minority of the playlist, there was more rock on Top 40 in the 70s than today. Think of any popular 70s rock band, even if most of their airplay was on AOR, chances are they had songs crossover to the pop chart as well.

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That's simply not true...

Pink Floyd had 1 TOP TEN HIT on the pop chart
Led Zeppelin had 1 TOP TEN HIT on the pop chart
Lynard Skynard had 1 TOP TEN HIT on the pop chart
Kiss had 1 TOP TEN HIT on the pop chart
AC/DC couldn't crack Top 40 on the pop chart
Ozzy Osbourne/Judas Priest couldn't crack top 40 on the pop chart

The list goes on and on...

Scroll through the 70s Year-End Pop Charts on www.popradiotop20.com - I'd say about 10% of the are rock

My anecdotal 2 cents: I doubt there are any weeks during the 70s where the Top 40 didn't have at least 15 rock songs charting. That includes soft rock or pop rock. Compare to nowadays and you'd be hard pressed to come up with 10 songs on the Top 40 on any given week.

I enjoy listening to 70s Top 40 airchecks. There is always rock on them. They will go from a disco song to Barry Manillow to Deep Purple-Smoke On The Water. Huge variety. Not to mention they played tons of softer rock bands like Fleetwood Mac, Steve Miller,America etc. If you include those type of pop-rock acts, rock made up a substantial portion of the playlist,

It would be interesting to see what the average listening age was for CHR v Rock v AOR stations in the 70s versus today. Rock may not be dead in 2012, but its probably not as favored by the youth market as it was in the 70s, and that will have long term implications for the genre down the road. Sure, there are 16 and 17 year olds that love Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin or even the Foo Fighters and RHCP, but the majority of their generation probably are not rock fans, in comparision to other genres. It spells trouble for the format down the road.

justpassingthough said:

It would be interesting to see what the average listening age was for CHR v Rock v AOR stations in the 70s versus today. Rock may not be dead in 2012, but its probably not as favored by the youth market as it was in the 70s, and that will have long term implications for the genre down the road. Sure, there are 16 and 17 year olds that love Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin or even the Foo Fighters and RHCP, but the majority of their generation probably are not rock fans, in comparision to other genres. It spells trouble for the format down the road.

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Once again, 16 and 17 year olds are downloading Train, Jason Mraz, and Coldplay - CHR just won't play them - which is why for the first time in history, pop/rock tracks are doing much better on the Hot 100 than they are on the CHR chart

The problem isn't that kids don't like rock - the problem is that pop radio PDs don't want to play it and that corporate radio uses it to differentiate CHR from Hot AC, just like how radio separated AOR from CHR in the 70s

And BTW kids are sure liking Philip Phillipps, who has the #1 downloaded track right now, in addition to 5-6 other tracks in the I-Tunes Top 50 - doesn't seem like kids have something against rock to me

atlantaboy said:

justpassingthough said:

It would be interesting to see what the average listening age was for CHR v Rock v AOR stations in the 70s versus today. Rock may not be dead in 2012, but its probably not as favored by the youth market as it was in the 70s, and that will have long term implications for the genre down the road. Sure, there are 16 and 17 year olds that love Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin or even the Foo Fighters and RHCP, but the majority of their generation probably are not rock fans, in comparision to other genres. It spells trouble for the format down the road.

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Once again, 16 and 17 year olds are downloading Train, Jason Mraz, and Coldplay - CHR just won't play them - which is why for the first time in history, pop/rock tracks are doing much better on the Hot 100 than they are on the CHR chart

The problem isn't that kids don't like rock - the problem is that pop radio PDs don't want to play it and that corporate radio uses it to differentiate CHR from Hot AC, just like how radio separated AOR from CHR in the 70s

And BTW kids are sure liking Philip Phillipps, who has the #1 downloaded track right now, in addition to 5-6 other tracks in the I-Tunes Top 50 - doesn't seem like kids have something against rock to me

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Do you have research to show that 16 and 17 years are downloading Train, Jason Mraz, etc, or are you just making an assertion? Sure, there are probably 16 year olds who like Train, but I'm guessing Train isn't as popular with 16 year olds as you're leading us to believe.

justpassingthough said:

atlantaboy said:

justpassingthough said:

It would be interesting to see what the average listening age was for CHR v Rock v AOR stations in the 70s versus today. Rock may not be dead in 2012, but its probably not as favored by the youth market as it was in the 70s, and that will have long term implications for the genre down the road. Sure, there are 16 and 17 year olds that love Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin or even the Foo Fighters and RHCP, but the majority of their generation probably are not rock fans, in comparision to other genres. It spells trouble for the format down the road.

Click to expand...

Once again, 16 and 17 year olds are downloading Train, Jason Mraz, and Coldplay - CHR just won't play them - which is why for the first time in history, pop/rock tracks are doing much better on the Hot 100 than they are on the CHR chart

The problem isn't that kids don't like rock - the problem is that pop radio PDs don't want to play it and that corporate radio uses it to differentiate CHR from Hot AC, just like how radio separated AOR from CHR in the 70s

And BTW kids are sure liking Philip Phillipps, who has the #1 downloaded track right now, in addition to 5-6 other tracks in the I-Tunes Top 50 - doesn't seem like kids have something against rock to me

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Do you have research to show that 16 and 17 years are downloading Train, Jason Mraz, etc, or are you just making an assertion? Sure, there are probably 16 year olds who like Train, but I'm guessing Train isn't as popular with 16 year olds as you're leading us to believe.

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"Drive By" by Train is currently #5 on Rate The Music.com under "Female Teens" - higher than Justin Bieber, Nicki Minaj, Fun, Gotye, Flo Rida, Usher, or Carly Rae Jepsen

http://www.allaccess.com/top40-mainstream/rate-the-music?format=H1&demo=F+Teens

There was a banner on AllAccess about a month ago advertising the fact that Train was getting high callout from teens - yet, corporate CHRs didn't care - Train was to be kept to a minimum on most stations, to differentiate pop stations from Hot ACs

Gotye just bumped Fun. from it's month or so run at the top of CHR. I'd say rock, at least alternative, is making somewhat of a comeback on CHR.