Energy Onix ECO Series VSWR

Before I call tech support, I wonder if anyone else has addressed what may or may not be an issue. Best I can tell, if an overload of any variety occurs on the ECO series, the transmitter shuts down and can not be reset remotely (at least there's no "overload reset" on the remote control connection list). This is my first winter with an ECO-10 and I'm wondering what to expect when the antenna ices up? Will it foldback & no problems will result or will an SWR overload occur & shut it down necessitating at trip to the site in difficult weather conditions?

You will find that any fault will cause a shutdown.
The ECO series does not have a feedback loop for
gentle power reduction. Plan on either adding power
adjust to whatever exciter you are running, or a travel
agency for proper trip planning and accommodations.

HAS99 said:

You will find that any fault will cause a shutdown.
The ECO series does not have a feedback loop for
gentle power reduction. Plan on either adding power
adjust to whatever exciter you are running, or a travel
agency for proper trip planning and accommodations.

Click to expand...

Or disconnecting the reflected power sample in winter. The 'ole CCA ran just fine into an iced antenna...bet this one will too. Thanks for the report HAS99.

My ECO 10 has a remote overload reset. The book says to connect terminal 10 of TB13, the remote control terminal strip, to ground to reset overloads. Your transmitter may be different, mine is only a little over a year old. Also I think mine has vswr foldback. Not sure on this but we had some minor iceing last year and I think I remember it reducing power. I will put a variable power supply on the refelected power connection sometime this weekend and see if it folds back or just kicks off. I will try to let you know what happens.

Thanks rew! This one was bought used from New Mexico...finally replaced all the parts that the fine sand was in (circuit breakers, relays, blower, etc) and replaced the missing diodes in the sampling section. Noticed that when plugging in the reflected power sample, it dumped and that got me looking for a remote reset option. I will be very interested in knowing the results of your foldback test. Guess my next research project will be finding out if the Harris Digit exciter can have it's power raised/lowered remotely...if so, I have remote power control too.

On page 27 of the manual, it does not list a remote reset option, but your mention of the TB13-10 possibility got me looking into the schematic--you are correct--it does have remote o/l reset! Good catch...Thank You!

Bernie Wise has been designing transmitters since the 1950s. I can't imagine that he would leave remote reset out after all these years. I had an Energy-Onix transmitter in the late 80s that had it.

Kmagrill said:

Bernie Wise has been designing transmitters since the 1950s. I can't imagine that he would leave remote reset out after all these years. I had an Energy-Onix transmitter in the late 80s that had it.

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I fully agree...been working on CCA's since 1967 and his dedication to building simple, reliable transmitters is beyond question in my eyes. But I do wonder why the manual wasn't written to show the o/l reset feature along on the same page as all the other remote control features. Manual wise, another missing item is the efficiency chart that was included with CCA transmitters. They say to use the test data, but that does little good when you change the TPO and/or frequency. In any case, on my next trip to this site, I'm adding a steering diode from the 'transmitter on' command so that the overload reset will be triggered each time the on command is issued.

Bob:

We've had an ECO-10 and ECO-30 for several years and are currently operating the ECO-10. It does have a remote reset feature. It can also be done manually from the front panel.

I'd would suggest not having it reset with the "power-on." The overload circuit is one step in the start-up chain of events and if an overload condition occurs, it will shut of the plates, IPA, and mute the exciter. Or if the overload is activated, the transmitter will only come up to that point (just fans, air-pressure interlock, filaments, delay, door interlock, etc.) and stop.

If you sort of defeat the overload by resetting with powering on, you lose some information that might be useful when operating the transmitter remotely and maybe risk damaging other components. For instance, a few weeks back we had a tube lose vacuum and the transmitter had an overload (current overload) and shut down. We did not know that at the time, just that we were off the air. Tried to shut down and restart remotely - nothing. Then after trying to operate normally, hitting the reset remotely. With the tube with no vacuum, the transmitter would start to power up and when the plates and some RF drive was applied, back to overload but in the process would cause a lot of the other equipment (like the SINE remote control that I was dialed into, the DSL, etc.) to reset or go offline from the power fluctuation that it would cause before the overload protection kicked in. From having seen this happen in the past with a "gassy" tube (seeing the building lights flicker, etc.) we quickly figured out that there was a tube problem and the overload protection was being activated. A visit to the site allowed us to test the HV plate without a tube and then replace the tube with a standby. You need to keep the reset and power-on seperate.

We had an antenna problem a few years back operating the ECO-30 and it does have a fold-back which limit output with increased VSWR. This is adjustable. Contact Bernie Wise.

Rob/CALL FM

If Bernie could save .15 cents on another terminal board and piece of wire he did it. I had 3 ECO-8's and a 20kw. The worst transmitters I have ever dealt with. Only to be beaten by Bernie's new voice over IP/T-1 box for being terrible. For the older vintage Bernie Boxes you will need to hard wire in a way to remote reset the fault reset. On the ECO-8s I know that the power adjust was a tiny flat head screw adjustment that could not be remoted and you needed a greenie to adjust power. The same was true with the Energy Onix exciter that went with those boxes. Sadly the CCA's were a better built box. Be carefull when you call Bernie hes pretty serly!

OK, I have a silly question. What good is an overload reset if you have ice on your antenna and when reset, the transmitter comes back up to full power? Wouldn't the transmitter kick back off again once the reflected power reached the trip point?

Wouldn't you need an overload reset AND power control available to remote so you could drop the power before resetting?

Why anyone would build a transmitter without automatic foldback is beyond me.

Bengalsfan said:

OK, I have a silly question. What good is an overload reset if you have ice on your antenna and when reset, the transmitter comes back up to full power? Wouldn't the transmitter kick back off again once the reflected power reached the trip point?

Wouldn't you need an overload reset AND power control available to remote so you could drop the power before resetting?

Why anyone would build a transmitter without automatic foldback is beyond me.

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Silly me, I went to Florida during the ice storm that killed 2 other class B's within 15 miles, but this one didn't miss a beat. I can only assume that it iced up, throttled back and resumed full power when the ice went away.

Not a silly question at all. Sometimes sites are just plan inaccessible in winter and when it starts to melt, being able to reset and try again is a worthy feature. The ECO manual does address remote power control, but it requires you to buy an RDL brick and interface it into the transmitter--good grief. But then, old CCA's had no power control unless you ordered that option. If the exciter has a remote power adjust, that's by far the simpler way to deal with it. I cut my teeth on old CCA's, the first one being nearly 45 years ago. It would run into a coat hanger if asked to. I've just gotten involved with 3 ECO's over the past couple years (a 6 running 2.6, a 10 running 7 and a 10 running 9.7)...so far, I'm happy with them. They are simple and don't fail any more often the old CCA's, which was almost never. Mark me in the ECO fan club column.

Bob   about a month ago I told you I would put a variable power supply on the refelected power port on my ECO 10 and see if the power would fold back. I did it but I guess I forgot to send you the results.
The power started folding back at about 1.5 to 1.7 VSWR.  A sudden increase caused the xmtr to throw an overload and shut down.  Sorry for the delay in sending this. I have had 4 ECO series transmitters that I have kept up and have had no major problems with them. I installed an ECO 6 in 2004 and it got its first new pa tube put in last year. 7 years for a PA tube ain't to bad.

rew said:

Bob about a month ago I told you I would put a variable power supply on the refelected power port on my ECO 10 and see if the power would fold back. I did it but I guess I forgot to send you the results.
The power started folding back at about 1.5 to 1.7 VSWR. A sudden increase caused the xmtr to throw an overload and shut down. Sorry for the delay in sending this. I have had 4 ECO series transmitters that I have kept up and have had no major problems with them. I installed an ECO 6 in 2004 and it got its first new pa tube put in last year. 7 years for a PA tube ain't to bad.

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Thanks REW. Really appreciate you going to the trouble of checking that. I found that when attaching the reflected sample cable to the directional coupler, the ECO would go into VSWR O/L and shut down, even when there's no measurable VSWR. That further strengthens my belief in the ECO series. Wish I were seeing that kind of tube life though...the 10 that runs 9.7KW TPO is running through an Econco tube about once every 2 years which is respectable but I wish it would be more like yours!

Old CCA and Bernie Tube Boxes will darn near operate into barbed wire loads if need be. Ice don't faze them. One reason why every station needs a reliable old tube tank rig as deep backup.

Kent T said:

Ice don't faze them.

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I first saw ice and whatever the model was before the CCA FM 5000D lock horns in the winter of 67/68...CCA won. That's when a wise engineer (and my mentor) by the name of George Waslo taught me to not touch the tuning when the ice accumulated. Some of the best advice I've ever been given.

I don't know much about the VSWR protection, but we have a ECO 4 FM transmitter that's been through HELL and still just sits there and runs without fail. It's the most amazing box I've seen for reliablity actually. The site is a old Ryder truck body that leaked water right down inside the transmitter about a year ago. We killed HV and cleaned things up, letting the blowers run for about a day. Then we plugged the tube back in and it's ran ever since. Bernie's handywork in the transmitter looks like a cheap POS but it's hard to argue with the track record of the old thing. With a decent roof on the place now I anticipate the old beast will be with us for many more years to come.

Actually a couple days of blower running...

Eco 10

Greetings
I have an ECO 8 and got the transmitter working fine but I do not have a manual and I need the remote control legend for TB13. I would imagine the echo 10 and the 8 are the same. Anyway you could email me that info?
It would save my day thanks

Tim Camp
WZEW Mobile All
[email protected]