like Big Markets like SF, LA, NY Chicago, Boston ect
Should put there AM's on the X-Band like KNBR could go on like 86.3
Should put there AM's on the X-Band like KNBR could go on like 86.3
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FM X-Band 76-87.7 Mhz
- Thread starter MarioMania
- Start date
The X-Band proposal is so closely tied to the whole issue of TV band reclamation and re-packing that until a plan is finalized for it we probably won't see the FCC make any move to expand the FM band. The fact that they just recently auctioned off full power TV signals on channels 5 and 6 on the East Coast tells me that expanding FM is not on the Commission's radar--at least for now.
Industry sources are predicting that it will take about two years before a spectrum repurposing plan is agreed upon and finalized.
Industry sources are predicting that it will take about two years before a spectrum repurposing plan is agreed upon and finalized.
So could the FCC mandate FM tuning down to 76 (or 54) for type acceptance on FM radios now, whether or not the FM band ever gets expanded. Manufacturers may squawk, but Japanese spec receivers are already available and I've heard that China is expanding their FM band downwards.
I still say that it would be years before any expansion below 87.5 would or even could occur, but this might be a step in the right direction.
I still say that it would be years before any expansion below 87.5 would or even could occur, but this might be a step in the right direction.
Chad-Stevens said:
Type acceptance is not required for receivers. *
I'm not entirely certain the FCC has the power to mandate tuning down to 54/76MHz. An Act of Congress gave them the power to mandate UHF coverage in TV sets in the 1960s, but that law doesn't cover radios. I'm not a lawyer (and I don't know the text of the all-channel law) so I don't know if it could be stretched to allow an all-channel mandate for radio.
I certainly wouldn't bet on such a mandate being politically possible, especially when there are no stations currently in that spectrum and no regulations allowing for stations there.
* they are required to be certified under Part 15 to not radiate spurious signals that would interfere with other stations.
@w9wi
I'm personally of the mindset that any expansion below 87.5 will take years and will likely be too late to save many of the AM stations that might benefit. If there is ever a band expansion, unlikely as it may be, I think the LPTV digital transition must come first.
Do you see any drop dead date for analog to digital LPTV conversion, and a resolution for the increasing number of ch.6 LPTV-as-FM stations?
I'm personally of the mindset that any expansion below 87.5 will take years and will likely be too late to save many of the AM stations that might benefit. If there is ever a band expansion, unlikely as it may be, I think the LPTV digital transition must come first.
Do you see any drop dead date for analog to digital LPTV conversion, and a resolution for the increasing number of ch.6 LPTV-as-FM stations?
Chad-Stevens said:
Absolutely, on the expansion point. I think we'll also need to see action on a proposal to share UHF-TV spectrum with wireless services. (said proposal calls for encouraging TV stations to remain on VHF)
And I don't know that TV would be the primary source of opposition to an FM expansion. Established radio stations fought a pretty dramatic battle to stop non-commercial LPFM. I think it's likely they'd fight an even harder battle to stop an FM expansion that would expand the number of full-market (and probably, commercial) FM signals.
See this link:
http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2010/db0917/FCC-10-172A1.doc
There is a proceeding open to set a drop-dead date. Most likely, it will be sometime in 2012.
The channel-6-as-FM thing will be resolved the same way -- I cannot see the FCC authorizing channel 6 LPTVs to remain analog while forcing the other 49 channels to go digital. (in other words, these "FrankenFM" operations will cease to be radio stations when that transition happens. They will be free to continue to operate as TV outlets. )(A few digital LPTVs on other channels are actually already offering radio stations on some of their subchannels, and that may be an option for some of these. Especially if they also adopt the ATSC M/H standard which is likely to work in moving vehicles.)
Here's the official word from the FCC on radio band expansion:
"Expansion of the AM or FM radio bands is unlikely to occur in the near future."
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/howtoapply.html
So while it doesn't close the door on expansion, the FCC does warn that it won't happen soon. I'm thinking not until the issue of TV band repacking is settled which will take at least a couple of years. Personally, I would love to see radio take channels 5 & 6 and give the rest of lower VHF to public safety while moving them off of UHF.
"Expansion of the AM or FM radio bands is unlikely to occur in the near future."
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/howtoapply.html
So while it doesn't close the door on expansion, the FCC does warn that it won't happen soon. I'm thinking not until the issue of TV band repacking is settled which will take at least a couple of years. Personally, I would love to see radio take channels 5 & 6 and give the rest of lower VHF to public safety while moving them off of UHF.
No one is using 5 or 6 anywhere except in Phila, New York..Why is the FCC being so lazy about it, alot of AM's would be happy to jump
MarioMania said:
I count 23 full-power stations in 22 markets using channels 5 and 6.
Most of them are major-network affiliates.
Market Station Network
#4 Philadelphia WPVI-TV ABC
#29 Nashville WTVF CBS
#35 Milwaukee WWAZ-TV IND (application from ch. 43)
#37 San Antonio KCWX CW
#40 Birmingham WUOA ThisTV
#41 Grand Rapids WGVK PBS
#50 Memphis WMC-TV NBC
#57 Albany/S./T. WRGB CBS
#69* Wichita KBSD-DT CBS
#72 Des Moines WOI-DT ABC
#73 Toledo WLMG ION
#93 Tri-Cities** WCYB-TV NBC
#105 Lincoln/H./K. KHAS-TV NBC
#114 Augusta, Ga. WCES-TV PBS
#140 Medford, Ore. KOBI NBC
#145 Albany, Ga. WABW-TV PBS
#168 Clarksburg, WV WDTV CBS
#174 Rapid City KIVV-TV Fox
#180 Marquette WBKP CW
#190 Butte KXLF-TV CBS
#190 Butte KTVM-TV NBC
#209 North Platte KWNB-TV ABC, Fox
#210 Glendive KXGN-TV CBS
* Only for the Garden City/Dodge City area
** Bristol-Kingsport-Johnson City, Tenn./Va.
Well don't put those station on 87.7 or 81.7 in those area's that has DTV 5 & 6
MarioMania said:
You'd have to eliminate the entire 76-82.5 or 81.5-88 MHz band in the areas that are using Channels 5 or 6, respectively. The extra 500 kHz being to disallow an FM station too close to the channel edge (similar to the restrictions on the use of the lowest FM frequencies in Channel 6 territory). The DTV signal covers the entire 6 MHz channel width.
I don't see a problem with obtaining radios already capable of using these frequencies, many of the old TV audio radios are still functioning and still found at flea markets, tag sales and such. Another source are many of those cheapo imitation mp3 players mean to look like or in similar styles to iPods, they have FM radio on them and in the settings there is an option for "Japanese FM Band" which changes them to 76.0 - 90.0. Thousands of these units are floating around already and many7 more are in stores and e-bay. Also speaking of e-bay, for less then $10 my brother was able to pick up a chinese made short-wave radio that has FM on it as well, the FM band on this unit... "70-108" MHz, I've got it tuned all the way down and it shows 69.3 MHz, it's a Kaide KK-848 and they apparently make other models as well, as when I just tried searching it, only models with 87-108 MHz came up, but the point is, it's not that hard to obtain as they are already here and being made and all that has to be done is acceptance by the fcc, manufactuers will follow no problem.
Allocating the entire 2-6 TV band on a SECONDARY BASIS TO EXISITNG TV STATIONS would be a very bright idea. I'm all for every AM in a market, starting with the littlest, least effective AM first, getting a allocation reserved for them. It aught to be analog FM radio so that all the old stuff out there for TV audio can be used by the consumer and the old TV transmitters or maybe even FM transmitters could be somewhat easily modified to convert over to the sub-FM band. I think many transmitters (amp section) would do it. New exciter, new antenna and line, and a modified "transmitter" would do the trick. Forget iBuz and all it's cost and problems. The little guys that own AMs can't afford all the BS at this point. What is left over could go to LPFM for all I care. Serve the AMs first, then move on the others. If the big AM stations like 10k and up didn't get a chunk it's not a huge loss. At some point the little guys are going to actually want to shut off their AM transmitters because it's a headache with little return if most of their audience will be on the sub-band. I would look for that to be a 15 year deal. Let them sell if off or turn in the licese to the big boys so they can turn up and let the big stations become bigger. At 25k or more on AM, it's still useful. Maybe some of the screwy directional arrays could be scrapped too. It's a win-win.
Forget the A.M.s as they already are broadcasting. A lot of them had their chances when they started F.M.s but those got sold along the way. Sure, most likely they're no longer the same ownership as the one that sold it but they had their chance. Force them to innovate. (Full disclosure: I am an A.M. guy & want to see that band stop being the cemetery of programming it's become. Besides, do we need brokered-time F.M.s?)
Allow 76-88 for new non-commercial entities. Allow lower-power stations only between 76-80 (gradually increasing from 10 or so watts around 76 up to 100 watts at 78 to a full class A around 80. Then start with the full-power N.C.E. broadcasters from 80-88. Move the LPFMs to the new band too and finally any station that was a class D that was forced off the air when N.P.R. strongarmed the F.C.C. into eliminating the Class D protection, can resume broadcasting in the new portion. Give them first rights.
Allow 76-88 for new non-commercial entities. Allow lower-power stations only between 76-80 (gradually increasing from 10 or so watts around 76 up to 100 watts at 78 to a full class A around 80. Then start with the full-power N.C.E. broadcasters from 80-88. Move the LPFMs to the new band too and finally any station that was a class D that was forced off the air when N.P.R. strongarmed the F.C.C. into eliminating the Class D protection, can resume broadcasting in the new portion. Give them first rights.
Did one of the debt ceiling bills that Congress was considering include something related to the TV spectrum? I saw several spots proclaiming the end of over-the-air TV last week.
William_Yeager said:
No, those spots have to do with the FCC's proposed National Broadband Plan. If enacted, it wouldn't end OTA TV but would severely crimp it by removing RF channels 31-51 from the current lineup. Many stations would be forced back to VHF channels to stay on the air, probably ending any hope for extending the FM band and greatly compounding the well-known VHF DTV reception problems.
The good news is, at present this is only a plan. AFAIK Congress hasn't approved anything yet, though the FCC does seem to be preparing to remove the first channel, 51:
http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=196500.msg1743599#msg1743599
At any rate, if you think moving a bunch of DTV stations to VHF is a really bad idea (or, for that matter, if you think it's a good idea), it wouldn't hurt to file a public comment with the FCC telling them so. Follow this link and select "09-51 National Broadband Plan Notice of Inquiry":
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/hotdocket/list
JHBrandt said:
The channels 31-51 figure is if the government reclaims all 120 MHz of broadcast spectrum. Lately the wording has been "up to" 120 MHz, meaning that it could be less. The FCC's Bill Lake, speaking before broadcasters last year, even talked about reclaiming 30, 60 or 90 MHz total. It depends on how severe an impact this reclamation scheme will have on OTA TV (according to the NAB, in Michigan it will be devastating).
But we can forget channels 5 and 6 for FM. The FCC has said as much. The Obama government firmly believes that everyone wants to watch TV and listen to radio via the internet and that TV and radio broadcasting are dinosaur technologies.
As a follow up to this thread, Obama's Jobs Bill, which specifies incentive auctions, sets a threshold of 84 MHz to be auctioned off. This would put the reclaimed spectrum for wireless services down to channel 38. Channel 37 is reserved for medical devices and radio astronomy and would also serve as a buffer between wireless and TV. So the TV band in this case would start at channel 2 and end at channel 36.
In connection with this the CBO has set a date of 2021 by which this spectrum is to be auctioned off. So, at most, it would give broadcasters about 10 years to work out and implement a new ATSC standard (2.0?) that is more bandwidth efficient. The downside is that will obsolete nearly all HDTVs and most broadcast equipment currently in use.
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/124530
In connection with this the CBO has set a date of 2021 by which this spectrum is to be auctioned off. So, at most, it would give broadcasters about 10 years to work out and implement a new ATSC standard (2.0?) that is more bandwidth efficient. The downside is that will obsolete nearly all HDTVs and most broadcast equipment currently in use.
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/124530
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