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LPFMs, NCEs and AMs all to move to former TVs 5 and 6?

I'd move the daytime AM stations first, so that they could guide their listeners at the nightly sign-off to tune to the new FM frequency to continue listening. In 6-18 months, retire the frequency. If these stations want to simulcast 24/7 during the transition period, that would be their option.

Next, move the full-time AM stations, who would be the only ones truly burdened with a 24/7 simulcast.

Third, if any space remains, allow an LPFM licensed for less than 100 watts (although personally I'd raise the LPFM ceiling to 250 watts) to move to a new frequency if they so desire.

Once all AM stations are retired, rewrite the rules regarding changes to stations' community of licenses to reflect that stations really don't serve suburbs, but metro areas-a lot of smaller FM stations could be replaced by fewer, larger FM allotments that cover the same number of folks (i.e simulcast partners 104.3 WAYI and 105.9 WRVI become one station by consolidating into a single frequency in Louisville).
 
William_Yeager said:
I'd move the daytime AM stations first, so that they could guide their listeners at the nightly sign-off to tune to the new FM frequency to continue listening. In 6-18 months, retire the frequency. If these stations want to simulcast 24/7 during the transition period, that would be their option.

Next, move the full-time AM stations, who would be the only ones truly burdened with a 24/7 simulcast.

Third, if any space remains, allow an LPFM licensed for less than 100 watts (although personally I'd raise the LPFM ceiling to 250 watts) to move to a new frequency if they so desire.

Once all AM stations are retired, rewrite the rules regarding changes to stations' community of licenses to reflect that stations really don't serve suburbs, but metro areas-a lot of smaller FM stations could be replaced by fewer, larger FM allotments that cover the same number of folks (i.e simulcast partners 104.3 WAYI and 105.9 WRVI become one station by consolidating into a single frequency in Louisville).
Click to expand...

It might be possible to consolidate some frequencies in smaller markets. For Chicago, that won't be possible in its current form, due to many suburban stations being short-spaced with Chicago signal stations (including stations licensed to the suburbs, but have their signal in Chicago). WCPT-FM 92.7 Arlington Heights is short-spaced with 92.5 WCPY Dekalb, 93.1 WXRT Chicago, & WPWX 92.3 Hammond, IN. WPWX 92.3 Hammond is short-spaced with 91.9 WJCH Joliet, 92.5 WCPY Dekalb, WCPT-FM 92.7 Arlington Heights, & WKIF 92.7 Kankakee.

93.5 WVIX is short-spaced with WXRT 93.1 & WLIT 93.9, both from Chicago. 94.3 WJKL Glendale Heights is short-spaced with WLIT 93.9 & 94.7 WLS-FM, both from Chicago. 95.1 WIIL Kenosha, WI is short-spaced a bit with 94.7 WLS-FM & 95.5 WNUA, both from Chicago

95.9 WERV Aurora is short-spaced with 95.5 WNUA & 96.3 WBBM-FM, both of Chicago. 96.7 WSSR Joliet is short-spaced with 96.7 WCOE LaPorte, IN, 96.9 WWDV Zion, IL (both of these stations are why they have nulls, otherwise, they could go non-directional), 96.3 WBBM-FM & 97.1 WDRV (96.3 & 97.1 Chicago). 97.1 WDRV Chicago is short-spaced with sister station WWDV 96.9 Zion. I don't know if WCCQ 98.3 Crest Hill/Joliet is short-spaced with WLUP 97.9 & WFMT 98.7 Chicago or not. If so, then the short-spacing is very small.

99.9 WCPQ Park Forest (used to be licensed to Kankakee years ago) is short-spaced with many stations, including Chicago stations WUSN 99.5 & 100.3 WILV, 99.9 WHFB Benton Harbor MI, 99.9 WJVL Janesville WI, 99.9 WWCT Peoria IL. There might be more stations that I don't know of. 103.1 WVIV Highland Park is short-spaced with 102.7 WVAZ Oak Park/Chicago & 103.5 WKSC-FM Chicago, plus 103.1 WCSJ-FM Morris, IL (However, WCSJ-FM has the sharp null toward Chicago to make WVIV the stronger signal in the market). 104.7 WCFL Morris IL signed on under the current rules, and has nulls toward Chicago to protect 104.3 WJMK Chicago & 105.1 WOJO Evanston/Chicago. 105.5 WZSR is mainly short-spaced with co-channel WYKT Willington/Joliet, and WZSR is directional toward Joliet.

105.9 WCFS-FM Elmwood Park/Chicago is short-spaced with 106.3 WSRB Lansing IL. Had WCFS signed on under the current rules, they would only be a Class A with at the most, a 6kw license. WSRB Lansing 106.3 is short-spaced with 105.9 WCFS-FM Elmwood Park/Chicago, & co-channels WUBU South Bend & WGCY Gibson City, IL. They have nulls toward South Bend & Gibson City to protect those stations, and only have a soft null toward Des Plaines to protect 106.7 WPPN Des Plaines, IL, since WPPN signed on under the current rules. Otherwise, WPPN would have been able to locate in Chicago, and be short-spaced with WSRB Lansing IL. Lastly, 107.9 WLEY is short-spaced with 107.5 WGCI Chicago, and 107.7 WVCY Milwaukee WI.


Most of these short-spaced stations are pre-1964 stations, which is why they have a lot of stations in the market. So even if the rules could be relaxed, there are other stations around in other markets that could prevent any of these stations from being combined, without sacrificing stations for the other markets.
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
Moving broadcasters to new frequencies will be a mine-field that must be crossed very, very carefully.
Click to expand...

Which is why the commissioners are staying away from it.

And it all ignores the fact that the public isn't interested in replacing radios, regardless of the content. Sure, one could say that in the 70s, the public rushed out to buy FM. But that was when radio was the ONLY means of wireless entertainment. They also rushed out and bought CB radios for a time, because that put transmitters in their hands. But since then, one-way communication has been replacd by two-way communication. Moving some stations that few people listen to now to a portion of the FM band they can't receive won't do a thing.

More importantly, the purpose of moving TV from those frequencies was not to give them away for free to non-commercial broadcasters. It was to sell them for huge profits to commercial interests. That is the mandate the FCC has had for 25 years, and it won't change because of the report from some task force.
 
Add to all that the fact that people are keeping cars much longer, those moved stations would be talking to themselves for a long time
 
I have a car from 1992 that I intend to keep until it dies, which could be many years. And when the car dies, I intend to keep its radio.
 
People seem to respond to hype much better than fact if it is presented correctly, ie: digital as better range than analog signals, Dish and DirecTV give better HD pictures than Off air signals and has a 100 channels, digital cell phones work better than analog cells, now they make HD TV antennas, yah right all hype with very little truth but people seem to buy it. Why not hype up the frequency moves as something really special at least there would be some truth there.
 
Do we really need tens of thousands more analog radio stations? ::)
 
kenglish said:
Do we really need tens of thousands more analog radio stations? ::)
Click to expand...

Whether additional stations would be analog or digital is not the center of the question. The question is whether ethnic groups, special hobby groups, special artistic groups, special political groups, geographical neighborhoods (a.k.a. suburban communities) and small rural communities want, will support, deserve or need a localized transmitter for their little fiefdom. Whether it is eventually analog or digital is minor housekeeping, isn't it?
 
Dave said:
William_Yeager said:
I'd move the daytime AM stations first, so that they could guide their listeners at the nightly sign-off to tune to the new FM frequency to continue listening.  In 6-18 months, retire the frequency.  If these stations want to simulcast 24/7 during the transition period, that would be their option.

Next, move the full-time AM stations, who would be the only ones truly burdened with a 24/7 simulcast.

Third, if any space remains, allow an LPFM licensed for less than 100 watts (although personally I'd raise the LPFM ceiling to 250 watts) to move to a new frequency if they so desire.

Once all AM stations are retired, rewrite the rules regarding changes to stations' community of licenses to reflect that stations really don't serve suburbs, but metro areas-a lot of smaller FM stations could be replaced by fewer, larger FM allotments that cover the same number of folks (i.e simulcast partners 104.3 WAYI and 105.9 WRVI become one station by consolidating into a single frequency in Louisville).
Click to expand...

It might be possible to consolidate some frequencies in smaller markets.  For Chicago, that won't be possible in its current form, due to many suburban stations being short-spaced with Chicago signal stations (including stations licensed to the suburbs, but have their signal in Chicago).  WCPT-FM 92.7 Arlington Heights is short-spaced with 92.5 WCPY Dekalb, 93.1 WXRT Chicago, & WPWX 92.3 Hammond, IN.  WPWX 92.3 Hammond is short-spaced with 91.9 WJCH Joliet, 92.5 WCPY Dekalb, WCPT-FM 92.7 Arlington Heights, & WKIF 92.7 Kankakee.

93.5 WVIX is short-spaced with WXRT 93.1 & WLIT 93.9, both from Chicago.  94.3 WJKL Glendale Heights is short-spaced with WLIT 93.9 & 94.7 WLS-FM, both from Chicago. 95.1 WIIL Kenosha, WI is short-spaced a bit with 94.7 WLS-FM & 95.5 WNUA, both from Chicago

95.9 WERV Aurora is short-spaced with 95.5 WNUA & 96.3 WBBM-FM, both of Chicago.  96.7 WSSR Joliet is short-spaced with 96.7 WCOE LaPorte, IN, 96.9 WWDV Zion, IL (both of these stations are why they have nulls, otherwise, they could go non-directional), 96.3 WBBM-FM & 97.1 WDRV (96.3 & 97.1 Chicago).  97.1 WDRV Chicago is short-spaced with sister station WWDV 96.9 Zion.  I don't know if WCCQ 98.3 Crest Hill/Joliet is short-spaced with WLUP 97.9 & WFMT 98.7 Chicago or not.  If so, then the short-spacing is very small.

99.9 WCPQ Park Forest (used to be licensed to Kankakee years ago) is short-spaced with many stations, including Chicago stations WUSN 99.5 & 100.3 WILV, 99.9 WHFB Benton Harbor MI, 99.9 WJVL Janesville WI, 99.9 WWCT Peoria IL.  There might be more stations that I don't know of.  103.1 WVIV Highland Park is short-spaced with 102.7 WVAZ Oak Park/Chicago & 103.5 WKSC-FM Chicago, plus 103.1 WCSJ-FM Morris, IL (However, WCSJ-FM has the sharp null toward Chicago to make WVIV the stronger signal in the market).  104.7 WCFL Morris IL signed on under the current rules, and has nulls toward Chicago to protect 104.3 WJMK Chicago & 105.1 WOJO Evanston/Chicago.  105.5 WZSR is mainly short-spaced with co-channel WYKT Willington/Joliet, and WZSR is directional toward Joliet. 

105.9 WCFS-FM Elmwood Park/Chicago is short-spaced with 106.3 WSRB Lansing IL.  Had WCFS signed on under the current rules, they would only be a Class A with at the most, a 6kw license.  WSRB Lansing 106.3 is short-spaced with 105.9 WCFS-FM Elmwood Park/Chicago, & co-channels WUBU South Bend & WGCY Gibson City, IL.  They have nulls toward South Bend & Gibson City to protect those stations, and only have a soft null toward Des Plaines to protect 106.7 WPPN Des Plaines, IL, since WPPN signed on under the current rules.  Otherwise, WPPN would have been able to locate in Chicago, and be short-spaced with WSRB Lansing IL.  Lastly, 107.9 WLEY is short-spaced with 107.5 WGCI Chicago, and 107.7 WVCY Milwaukee WI.


Most of these short-spaced stations are pre-1964 stations, which is why they have a lot of stations in the market.  So even if the rules could be relaxed, there are other stations around in other markets that could prevent any of these stations from being combined, without sacrificing stations for the other markets.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that Chicago is a mess until now.  So that's why Pacifica couldn't start a station in Chicago. (Some guy caught the fringes of KPFT's signal 50 miles south of Dallas on a very clear day a few weeks ago.  He called in to the Open Journal program (9am) and wondered if new stations were going to be opened up in new places (the GM had just mentioned the new translator coming soon to Huntsville).  Chicago was one of the cities he mentioned but GM Duane Bradley said "It's hard to get a new FM station online [in an urban area]." and "They're [existing stations] are too expensive.  You're looking to start at least $100,000 for an existing station.")

I am surprised (but grateful) that Chicago wasn't able to have a Pacifica station but Houston has.
 
KTN Corp said:
but GM Duane Bradley said "It's hard to get a new FM station online [in an urban area]." and "They're [existing stations] are too expensive. You're looking to start at least $100,000 for an existing station.")
Click to expand...

Why do I have the feeling you meant to put more zeroes in that starting price tag? A big rowdy event this year was Chicago selling it's parking meters to private enterprise. I don't what the price was but I wouldn't surprised to see Chicago parking meters selling for $100,000 each. ;D
 
The BMC proposal won't happen, or at least won't happen anytime soon. Inside Radio stated yesterday that radio is off the radar as far as the FCC is concerned, at least for the rest of the year. It's all about wireless broadband now.

Then we have the broadcast TV industry which is being pressured into giving up an additional 120 MHz of spectrum after surrendering over 100 MHz a few years ago. Expect them to fight hard to retain ch. 5&6 even though VHF is a poor band for DTV and especially mobile DTV.

As it is, most FM radios can already tune ch. 6 audio or 87.7 and some can even tune down to 87.1 so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to put new FM stations on ch. 6.

c5
 
I think that the FCC really needs to set a drop dead date for LPTVs to transition to digital and then freeze new applications for RF 5 and 6 and the entire AM band. I think that using 87.5 - 87.9 as overflow channels for displaced LPFMs where available could be done immediately. (The precedent has already been set with KSFH-87.9).

As for farming out RF 5 and 6 where available for AM daytimers, it can and should be done but will take a few years transition period just like the AM BCB expansion did - by which time it may be too late to save many of the AM daytimers.

Perhaps DTV transitions in Japan (where the FM band is severely overcrowded) and the PRC will establish a precedent of a 76-108 MHz FM band and make receivers more readily produced.
 
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