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TM Century "Stereo Rock" in Seattle?

Slightly ot, but I heard a demo of Stereo Rock on ATR a couple weeks ago and it kind of reminded me of the old KMCQ. I think had they gone with maybe a locally programmed version of that format I would have liked them a lot better.
 
I seem to remember when the format had song tags, the system would play two songs in a row, then the title and artist would be announced. I'm not sure if this is TM Stereo Rock or another automated format. Even though I was still not savvy in the broadcast industry, I did notice this.

That meant two current/recurrent songs would be played back-to-back, then the artists and titles would be announced. Then two older songs would play back to back and the artists and titles would be announced. I guess this system was best if you didn't want a voice between every song.
 
Here's a demo of the format, with some of the whys and wherefores. Though the jingles and liners are from the TM Stereo Rock station closest to me growing up, WPTH, Fort Wayne, IN, it's not an aircheck as the commercials are not Fort Wayne advertisers of that time. https://youtu.be/0xTwLb7m4R8
 
Kelly A said:
The TM Century rock library thing never seems to die. Back in the late 80's, I was helping out at KBSG where the majority of the library was from TM Century. It was there I discovered a stereo phase problem with the all CD's that TM Century provided. Much of the station library had to be re-carted from original recordings over time. TM Century apparently had created their library with some sort of phase processing to make the stereo imaging wider than the original recording. Problem was, mono audio was swishy and weird sounding. Car radios that go into blend (mono) mode with noise or multipath, would cause the music to sound really odd.

Fast forward to around 2000, when KJR-FM debuted using (you guessed it) the TM Century library. The PD at the time was convinced something was wrong with the station audio processing, because the station was quiet on his mono home clock radio. Once I discovered they were getting the audio files from TM Century, I knew what the problem was. The solution was to gradually re-record the library from original recordings and in the meantime, I inserted a little-known device called a Howe Phase Chaser in the station program chain. The Phase Chaser did the trick altering the phase back to somewhat normal, until the rest of the library could be replaced.
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Were those the "Gold Discs"? or some other TM Century product. Just curious.
 
The "gold discs" were important in the time, but are meaningless today. They offered good quality on certain tracks. However, today's digital tech has placed them as ancient and unneeded. All of these recordings are now digitized and can be uploaded within seconds. As for quality of sound, I don't think that is even an issue today.
 
seatownmedia said:
The "gold discs" were important in the time, but are meaningless today. They offered good quality on certain tracks. However, today's digital tech has placed them as ancient and unneeded. All of these recordings are now digitized and can be uploaded within seconds. As for quality of sound, I don't think that is even an issue today.
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The GoldDisks(tm) paradigm has changed. Libraries are provided on hard drives or transferred by FTP, with the wanted cuts selected online. This covers the needs of single stations and small groups. Larger groups will have the possible songs from the significant formats on some type of central server, from where they are dished out to the stations changing a format or implementing a music test that mandated adding new cuts to the library.

Generally, which ever method is used, an attempt is made to use the version of the song that was released to radio for the intended format as that will be the most familiar version.

The libraries are also widely used outside the US on stations that can not get the music they need locally. With more than 90% of the world's radio stations not being located in the US, and many of those playing English language music, that's a big market.
 
Gregg. said:
I seem to remember when the format had song tags, the system would play two songs in a row, then the title and artist would be announced. I'm not sure if this is TM Stereo Rock or another automated format. Even though I was still not savvy in the broadcast industry, I did notice this.

That meant two current/recurrent songs would be played back-to-back, then the artists and titles would be announced. Then two older songs would play back to back and the artists and titles would be announced. I guess this system was best if you didn't want a voice between every song.
Click to expand...

Yes, the two currents were backed announced... "that was____, and before that___". The station I heard with TM Stereo Rock most (KRNQ, Des Moines) didn't announced the oldies that followed, although for a brief period at night they ran an album cut replacing one of the oldies and that was back announced. I'm sure they had different configurations for different stations.
 
seatownmedia said:
The "gold discs" were important in the time, but are meaningless today. They offered good quality on certain tracks. However, today's digital tech has placed them as ancient and unneeded. All of these recordings are now digitized and can be uploaded within seconds. As for quality of sound, I don't think that is even an issue today.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of the change in technology from CD to MOHD, as I worked for a company that delivered music to several thousand radio stations across the US, and I was involved heavily in our MOHD products when everything gravitated from CD automation to MOHD.

My question was more aimed at KellyA, who said the TM Century gold music was 'out of phase'. And around 2000 it's possible that although the music he referred to was on MOHD, the original sources of the music that was placed on hard drive may have been Gold Discs.
 
I remember the format on (the then) KNWR and wasn't impressed. I found it to be pretty boring and uninspiring. Someone said they switched to soft rock KAFE in the mid 80's. No they didn't. I was in suburban vancouver until July of 1987 and they were still KWNR and were running the stereo rock format. Truthfully I only knew one person who actually listened to it, a transplant from Detroit who couldn't wrap his head around top 40 on AM. KNWR's signal wasn't too great in the lower mainland, it was hit or miss and definitely wasn't something you could enjoy in the car with all the dropouts.
 
boombox4 said:
Were those the "Gold Discs"? or some other TM Century product. Just curious.
Click to expand...

Sorry I was traveling and haven't had time to see your question.

Yes, the original discs at KBSG were the TM Century Gold discs. As David said, at KJR-FM, the song files from TM Century were sent over via HD and had the exact same phase issue.

From what I understood after speaking with someone in the know on the technical side of TM Century, someone up the food chain made the call to archive most of their oldie and rock song files dubbed through a 'stereo enhancer', to give them a more dramatic stereo image. Problem was, after it went through the audio processing and was mono summed via a tuner, vocals sounded echoey, perceived audio level was reduced, etc.
 
Off-topic: Would that be similar to why audio on KING-TV is so horrible (mostly JUST with music?). I'm figuring it's something in the processing chain ... but audio literally drops out leaving local inserts and going back to Network on some shows ... especially "the Voice". I don't think it's a phase issue (like on mono monitors or Stereo Control Rooms feeding AM), because everything is fed and played back in stereo on stereo TV's ... but it sure SOUNDS the same as if phase is not right.
 
LITTLEBOYBLUE said:
Off-topic: Would that be similar to why audio on KING-TV is so horrible (mostly JUST with music?). I'm figuring it's something in the processing chain ... but audio literally drops out leaving local inserts and going back to Network on some shows ... especially "the Voice". I don't think it's a phase issue (like on mono monitors or Stereo Control Rooms feeding AM), because everything is fed and played back in stereo on stereo TV's ... but it sure SOUNDS the same as if phase is not right.
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It could be that their 5.1 surround and stereo settings on their audio processing isn't set up correctly or working right. See if I can keep this short:

Network affiliated stations have to switch their audio processing between two sources: Local studio audio like news mics, music, spots, promos, recorded programming, etc. and Network 5.1 surround during shows with that audio. Sometimes their automation will send the trigger to the stations audio processing to switch between modes. In some cases, stations choose to leave their processing in a quasi-stereo to 5.1 surround up-conversion mode, telling your TV or home theater tuner there is always 5.1 encoded audio, just with only the left and right channels having any audio during stereo-only audio. Doing this will allow the Network 5.1 audio during prime time to pass, while eliminating the need for a true switch between stereo mode and 5.1 up-conversion. Sometimes if they leave the audio processor in up-convert mode as the default, it can do some weird things to music with a lot of phasing.

The way to check what mode they are transmitting in, is to look at your receiver menu to see if they show what the audio type is. If it always shows KING 5-1 in 5.1 surround mode, then there is the answer to why some music sounds funny. They are running in full time up-convert mode. Another thing to check, is make sure your TV doesn't have some weird synthesized theater setting turned on. That will mess with stereo music in particular, because its trying to create separation or stereo imaging that doesn't really exist.
 
Gregg. said:
I seem to remember when the format had song tags, the system would play two songs in a row, then the title and artist would be announced. I'm not sure if this is TM Stereo Rock or another automated format. Even though I was still not savvy in the broadcast industry, I did notice this.

That meant two current/recurrent songs would be played back-to-back, then the artists and titles would be announced. Then two older songs would play back to back and the artists and titles would be announced. I guess this system was best if you didn't want a voice between every song.
Click to expand...

TM Stereo Rock would play two current songs back to back and back announce them -- but they did not back announce oldies. They paired currents like this apparently until the mid-eighties, because I know that they were still doing this on KNWR Bellingham and KHQ-FM Spokane when I moved out of the northwest in April of 1984, but when I was next able to hear the format a couple years later on KDSQ Denison/Sherman (Texas) they were no longer playing pairs of currents. By 1986, they would play a single current, back announce it, then follow it with an older song (not back announced).
 
Growing up, my thought was that automation should be made to sound as NOT automated as possible, Bonneville and Schulke notwithstanding. That's probably why I never much cared for the concept of putting announcers on the same reels with the music. If we're talking about the same format I used to hear, 2 or 3 hours of the same, relatively disinterested voice, back announcing a song or two in such a tightly-formatted way, with no deviation... ever... was sort of a dead giveaway.

Years ago, the owner of a Southern Oregon station recorded his own tapes, back-announcing EVERY song on EVERY reel. He had a good enough voice, did a good job, laying the tones down and had a bit more personality, but the system got so predictable, you could almost name the reel number after listening to it for any length of time.

As stations began to pull their automation systems out of the closet and do more with them than simple sequencing, those back-announced tapes really got in the way, IMHO....

... and a bit off-topic: I thought the system that Concept Productions came out with... separate voice track reels with data bursts at the end of each tone to keep the voice tracks synched up with the music, was a cool idea for the time. The announcers appeared in "scheduled" shifts, you had fresh shows every day and the system had a box in the rack that would prevent the announcer from saying "Here's Charley Pride" over the intro of a Dolly Parton song.
 
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Grounded Grid said:
I thought the system that Concept Productions came out with... separate voice track reels with data bursts at the end of each tone to keep the voice tracks synched up with the music, was a cool idea for the time.
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KYYX 96.5FM tried that concept for about a year. Their custom IGM automation ran the music from carts, voice tracks from reel tape. More of a technical hassle than it was worth.
 
I worked at a station that was installing Country from Concept as I was leaving. If the burst on the voice track tape didn't match up to the burst on the reel, it wouldn't play, the automation would silence sense out and the operator would be alerted that something was wrong. Another station I worked at used Concept but not with the voice tracks.
 
TM Stereo Rock did a back announce only after the currents. They also had reels of album cuts that were back announced and used by some (but not all) client stations, oftentimes at night only.
 
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