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All News in L.A.

G

Gregg

We've talked about the poor ratings all-news stations get in Los Angeles. All-news is doing great in many large markets... San Francisco, Chicago, Washington, Philadelphia, Boston, Detroit.

And in NYC, for the first time I believe, WINS and WCBS finished #1 and #2 in the morning drive ratings. Since the introduction of PPM, WCBS has been seeing its ratings climb. Part of that is being the Yankees flagship, but it's true in the winter as well.

So I have to ask again... why do KNX and KFWB do so poorly in the ratings, even the morning drive ratings where most news stations shine? Even owing to a segment of the population not being fluent in English, I would guess it isn't hard to listen to an all-news station if you're at least conversent in English. Plus the numbers for KNX and KFWB are so poor compared to KFI, it's clear Anglo listeners aren't spending much time with all-news either.

Do people in LA just not care to know the weather or traffic? Just drive into a traffic jam that could be avoided because LA listeners would rather listen to music than news? Or fail to bring an umbrella on a rainy day because you couldn't tear yourself away from Piolin or Kevin & Bean? (Yes I know FM stations do traffic and weather too. But not on a precise timetable and not in as much detail as news stations.)


Gregg
[email protected]
 
Many theories have been posted here on Radio-Info in past threads:
* Weather, a prime driver of all-news tune-in in other markets is mostly a non-issue here
* Earthquakes - the Super Bowl of LA newsradio stories have thankfully been few and far between for about a generation now
* Product - KNX still is a shadow of what it was in the George Nicholaw era. Certainly better than it was 5 years ago, and its #s have moved up a bit in recent books
* Product - KFWB has been imploded by management - making its on-air product much less of an attraction
* Competition - KFI has a credible news identity, which retains its audience rather than seeing them scan the dial for news in addition to the talk they already receive there
* Market - Angelinos are reputed to be narcissistic, and perhaps it's true, in that the locals don't apparently care as much about what's happening in the world as do folks in D.C., SFO, NYC, etc.
 
Gregg said:
So I have to ask again... why do KNX and KFWB do so poorly in the ratings, even the morning drive ratings where most news stations shine? Even owing to a segment of the population not being fluent in English, I would guess it isn't hard to listen to an all-news station if you're at least conversent in English. Plus the numbers for KNX and KFWB are so poor compared to KFI, it's clear Anglo listeners aren't spending much time with all-news either.
Click to expand...

75% of the market is ethnic / immigrant. 42% Hispanic, 8% Black, 12% Asian, and about 15% first generation immigrants from other areas, such as the former Soviet Bloc, Persia, Arab nations, etc. These groups tend to not use news radio. Hispanics get news predominantly from TV, and I assume that there exist non-radio sources for the other immigrant origin groups.

LA is a TV news market. Good weather means that all local news can be recorded and broadcast and there is easy helicopter access to news sites from the air, something not possible in much of the NY or SF markets, as examples.

This is a matter of how people prefer to get news, and it is significantly based on issues of ethnicity or heritage.
 
I have another theory, which I have come to after moving my 80 year old mom to LA after many years in Boston and DC. In most of the rest of the country, politics is big business and naturally the news stations cover them heavily. In fact, it's usually a contact sport full of thrills and chills and drama. Here in LA, we know that somewhere there are politicians doing something, but we barely think about them. If you did man on the street interviews, once you got past Ahnuld and Villaraigosa, no one would be able to name any other local pol. So there's never a compelling need to know what these folks are up to.

She listens to KNX all the time and wants to know why it's always about celebrities and not about politicians. Becase, Mom, here in LA the politicans are NOT celebs, we have the real kind.
 
gerald said:
I have another theory, which I have come to after moving my 80 year old mom to LA after many years in Boston and DC. In most of the rest of the country, politics is big business and naturally the news stations cover them heavily. In fact, it's usually a contact sport full of thrills and chills and drama. Here in LA, we know that somewhere there are politicians doing something, but we barely think about them. If you did man on the street interviews, once you got past Ahnuld and Villaraigosa, no one would be able to name any other local pol. So there's never a compelling need to know what these folks are up to.
Click to expand...

From 1975 to 1980, KBX and KFWB had an average of between 8 and 9 shares. In New York, the average over the same period was 10 to 11 shares.

Today, all news in NY has an 8 to 9 share in PPM, while in LA the range is around a 5.

NY has lost about 20% to 25% of its news shares since the late 70's, while LA has lost about 40%. The difference is that LA has become more ethnic over the period than NY.
 
All news would probably do great in desert retirement communities like Sun City, Hemet, and Palm Springs. :D
 
OC Radio Geek said:
All news would probably do great in desert retirement communities like Sun City, Hemet, and Palm Springs. :D
Click to expand...

The format requires high cume and small markets can generate cume, and the format is enormously expensive. Further, 55+ audience is not easily salable, if salable at all.
 
DavidEduardo said:
OC Radio Geek said:
All news would probably do great in desert retirement communities like Sun City, Hemet, and Palm Springs. :D
Click to expand...

The format requires high cume and small markets can generate cume, and the format is enormously expensive. Further, 55+ audience is not easily salable, if salable at all.
Click to expand...

hahaha lol I was actually being sarcastic with my post above. ;D

However, you are correct. The cume will be strong in those retirement areas, but 55+ certainly is not very advertiser friendly.
 
I wonder how the marketers determine there is no return. I'm reminded of an article I read some time ago. Toyota wanted to make a car to appeal to the 20 somethings, so they came out with the Scion, which is square looking. Well it turned out they had a lot of 40+ buyers who liked the car. I remember meeting a couple in thier 70's who had one.

That makes me wonder why the drug companies spend so much money pushing drugs for colesterol and arthritis, not to mention viagra.
 
Ron said:
I wonder how the marketers determine there is no return.
Click to expand...

Marketers like P&G spend hundreds of millions a year on research for both products and consumer reaction. In general, save products that are made sepcifically for seniors and for which there is no estasblished behaviour, radio is not used to reach 55+ because the cost of "making a sale" is greater than the profit on the sale.

This finding is carried even into the packaging... designs are researched against the heaviest consumers who will be most likely to try or switch to the product. Seniors tend to be slower in changing, requiring more messages.

I'm reminded of an article I read some time ago. Toyota wanted to make a car to appeal to the 20 somethings, so they came out with the Scion, which is square looking. Well it turned out they had a lot of 40+ buyers who liked the car. I remember meeting a couple in thier 70's who had one.
Click to expand...

What Toyota did not count on is that the height and the full door swing of the Scion "box car" is very appealing to those with arthritis, joint problems, peripheral nerve damage, etc., so word of mouth got out that the car was much easier to get in and out of than an Altima or a Fiesta.


That makes me wonder why the drug companies spend so much money pushing drugs for colesterol and arthritis, not to mention viagra.
Click to expand...

When you are 20 or 30 or 40 you don't need those drugs. So when you do, generally when over 50 or so, it's a new product for you and you have no preformed brand preferences. But radio is not used much for this kind of ad, as the disclaimers, easily done in small type in print or in supers in TV, make radio ads too long to sell anything.
 
This all said, KNX has a real identity crisis on the air. They want to be "credible" but are way too talky.

On the other hand, if I want news, I will turn to KFI just because they get to the meat of a story quick. Their news style, straight out of Mervyn Block, gets in and out. Sometimes when I listen to KNX they sound like they are reading a newspaper story, which has a totally different syntax.

Larry Van Nuys has a great voice, but is the wrong person and wrong style.
 
sdwulfdawg said:
This all said, KNX has a real identity crisis on the air. They want to be "credible" but are way too talky.

On the other hand, if I want news, I will turn to KFI just because they get to the meat of a story quick. Their news style, straight out of Mervyn Block, gets in and out. Sometimes when I listen to KNX they sound like they are reading a newspaper story, which has a totally different syntax.

Larry Van Nuys has a great voice, but is the wrong person and wrong style.
Click to expand...

I agree. KFI really gives you what you need to know about the important stories of the day. Not a bunch of BS!
 
The old KFWB, before management began sabotaging it, was very much a "get to the point and move on" format, and did pretty well -- at least in revenue, which is what matters.
 
Ron said:
I wonder how the marketers determine there is no return. I'm reminded of an article I read some time ago. Toyota wanted to make a car to appeal to the 20 somethings, so they came out with the Scion, which is square looking. Well it turned out they had a lot of 40+ buyers who liked the car. I remember meeting a couple in thier 70's who had one.

That makes me wonder why the drug companies spend so much money pushing drugs for colesterol and arthritis, not to mention viagra.
Click to expand...

This reminds me of something Lee Iacocca said once - back in the 60s, I think, when he was running Ford (the original Mustang was one of the cars developed under his watch). I can't find the quote on the internet, so I'm only paraphrasing, but the point was:

You can get older people to buy cars designed for the younger generation, but not vice-versa.

In other words, there are thousands of baby boomers who will buy new Corvettes and Mustangs to relive their youth - but very few young people who want to buy new Buicks. I'm sure David Eduardo could provide an analogy to radio.

I don't get Ron's analogy to drugs, though...older people often need drugs (of the non-recreational variety) to maintain their quality of life, or even to survive. Young people generally do not.
 
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