I'm surprised Minneapolis is still the only market that doesn't have a full time modern rock station & it hasn't been that way since May 7, 2007, when they changed it's format to Love 105 (soft AC/oldies). Do you think Love 105 should change it back to Rev 105 (or a here's a good idea, Indie 105) They have Indie 103 in Los Angeles, which are based independent artists from there, along wth new wave classics from the 80's & the grunge from the 90's, if they feel like it or maybe some Minneapolis move in should fit well? It would be good if Minneapolis has station that has Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Alice of Chains, Stone Temple Pilots, & other artists that made grunge great in the 1990's, along with today's artists such as Hot Hot Heat, the Strokes, Franz Ferdinand, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Panic At the Disco, Velvet Revolver, Audioslave, White Stripes, The Killers, Jack Johnson, Ryan Adams, & other independent artists, mostly from Minneapolis available. Do you think Minneapolis should support a station like that? Tell us what you think.
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Minneapolis
- Thread starter dgendvil
- Start date
Drive 105 wasn't alt. rock it was basically an Alt AC format to take away #s from the Modern AC/AAA hybrid Cities 97. The Current's format is basically Noncommercial Light Indie Rock.
There is a hole for alt. rock in MSP big enough to drive a Mack truck through. Look at a music log of 91X or KRBZ - most of those songs are not getting play in MSP.
There is a hole for alt. rock in MSP big enough to drive a Mack truck through. Look at a music log of 91X or KRBZ - most of those songs are not getting play in MSP.
Re;
12+ ratings mean nothing. KRBZ and 91X have been around for a long time. The owners of commercial alternative rock stations (of which nearly every top market in the US has one) would not put up with the stations for one moment if they weren't profitable. It's a nice niche to be in. If it weren't you wouldn't see stations in Green Bay, Des Moines, Kansas City, Denver and Milwaukee in the format.
12+ ratings mean nothing. KRBZ and 91X have been around for a long time. The owners of commercial alternative rock stations (of which nearly every top market in the US has one) would not put up with the stations for one moment if they weren't profitable. It's a nice niche to be in. If it weren't you wouldn't see stations in Green Bay, Des Moines, Kansas City, Denver and Milwaukee in the format.
The format is pretty ubiquitous around the country though, and many feel it's amazing that it hasn't been in MSP for so long.
You're right about the M18-34 diary response. With the new PPM ratings system being rolled out now which is making it easier to quantify who's listening, even more stations are switching to alt.-based formats in places like Cincinnati, Philly, Baltimore among others.
P.S. Yes the Channel Q/Des Moines is in Ames, just as KROQ/LA is in Pasadena. It's been in the 1's 12+ lately but last spring was 2.9 in the Des Moines market. Obviously they target Ames as well and the college population, but the station also targets DM's sizable population.
You're right about the M18-34 diary response. With the new PPM ratings system being rolled out now which is making it easier to quantify who's listening, even more stations are switching to alt.-based formats in places like Cincinnati, Philly, Baltimore among others.
P.S. Yes the Channel Q/Des Moines is in Ames, just as KROQ/LA is in Pasadena. It's been in the 1's 12+ lately but last spring was 2.9 in the Des Moines market. Obviously they target Ames as well and the college population, but the station also targets DM's sizable population.
dgendvil said:
Market 1. NYC doesn't have a modern rock station at all. They have three stations that play rock music - one is full time classic rock (Q 104.3), one is commercial forklift-driver classic rock and mainstream modern rock ala Foo Fighters and Linkin Park (K-Rock), and one is a pseudo-AAA mix of classic rock, singer/songwriters and alternative (WRXP).
I don't understand the reluctance to use such a format in NYC. Alternative generally targets a more intelligent, sophisticated listener - you would think there would be enough people like that to support such a station. K-Rock was sort of Alternative (more mainstream modern rock, though) from '94-'97, but quickly retreated by throwing heavy amounts of "Retro Rock" into the mix and never looked back despite steadily declining ratings. Perhaps they felt that this was what Stern's audience wanted, but it didn't pay off and they went Free-FM for less than two years before flipping back to the same tame rock mix.
With Stern out of the picture, I don't understand the continued fear of giving such a format a whirl, esp. with K-Rock and RXP posting ratings under a 2 share. If done the right way, I could see it being a strong mid-level performer, though not necessarily giving the big guns in the market (AC Lite FM, Urban AC Kiss FM, Salsa/Latin La Mega 97.9) any sleepless nights.
SoulCrusher said:
You and I have been saying the same thing for...years now I think. Agreed on all counts. Both stations suffer because, while they try to be "eclectic" they simply just turn off most listeners. So what we're left with in NYC is a not-really-but-kinda-Active Rock station and a not-really-but-kinda Modern/Alternative station. Those who listen to K-Rock and enjoy the same Pearl Jam, STP, Nirvana, etc. songs are most likely going to be turned off by the constant pumping of the new Coldplay single. In the same vein, listeners tuning into RXP to get Cold War Kids, Vampire Weekend, Coldplay intermixed with some R.E.M. are likely not interested in hearing the same tired Aerosmith song or post-grunge/butt-rock like Staind and Puddle Of Mudd.
The solution would be to have one Active Rocker (K-Rock) and one Modern more "indie"-leaning alternative (RXP). Classic Rock should be left to Q (save for maybe a few songs on K-Rock) and we will have all niches covered.
dgendvil said:
When it was on the air, KEGE (93.7 The Edge) had at one point the highest overall share of any modern rocker in the country. Their stellar ratings continued throughout their lifespan.
But KEGE's foremost goal wasn't to get good ratings. It was to protect the mothership - KQRS. During the course of the last decade or so, Twin Cities radio has more or less been a chess game between ABC and what would become Clear Channel (then Chancellor and AMFM). And they eliminated the Edge's rival in 1997 when they bought the Rev 105 rimshot signals and flipped to hard rock (as there were rumors of a rival picking up the format). When Chancellor launched Rock 100.3 not too soon after and added Howard Stern, ABC switched signals, bringing hard rock to 93.7 (as 93X) and moving alt-rock to the 105's, in order to crush them. The 105 frequencies were tweaked many times over the years, even briefly flipping to jammin' oldies. The alt-rock format was brought back as Drive 105, but it was rather watered down and designed to give a little heat to CC's Cities 97. They later switched to soft oldies to take on another CC property (Kool 108). Plus, the 105s have always had spotty coverage, and never had a chance of cracking a two share.
Yes, there is a hole for alt-rock in the market. Only thing is, there aren't enough signals and only a few major players (Citadel, CC, CBS, Hubbard and B96). Conventional wisdom would dictate a station with decent signal coverage like FM107 dumping the estrogen chat and going alternative, but Hubbard seems stuck in their ways there. CC will drive KTLK (which was at one time the Howard Stern rocker) into the ground if they have to, since they're adamant about doing talk radio in the Twin Cities. And CBS seems happy with Jack 104. Citadel doesn't see any need to flip 93X. So, it doesn't look like alt-rock is coming back anytime soon.
Alt-rock is viable, and would work in Minneapolis. I work for an alt in WI, a fairly new one at that, and since I started (just recently), have noticed even more people tuning us in and finding us. We seem to have a pretty nice sized audience thus far, and growing. Alternative, even though it has poor showings in 18-34, is viable. Arbitron, however, is not accurate, since most people in the 18-34 demo (including me), only have a cell phone and no land line. If only there was a way to rate us without a landline....
I just wanted to tell soulcrusher that krock in nyc was flipepd from classic rock to alternative in january of 1996. It was good back in the day!!!
What I meant is, Arbitron is not accurate. There are more listeners to alt than what the arb ratings show. It is because the 18-34 demo has cell phones mostly, that it causes issues. With PPM arriving, it has shown more life in the alt format than previously thought.
pbf1 said:
All but a small handful of the Top 50 markets in the United States have at *least* one commercial station that reports to the trades as Alternative Rock so the assertion that "most" markets play it safe by avoiding the format does not have basis in fact. Again, this would not be the case if the alternative rock stations were not profitable. To illustrate, there are zero Celtic-formatted commercial FM stations in the Top 50 U.S. markets.
The reason the format is absent from the Minneapolis terrestrial airwaves as accurately pointed out in someone's post earlier is twofold: 1) Lack of commercial FM signals compared with similarly sized markets and 2) An unwillingness to move stations to formats that cater to financially viable underserved markets in favor of protecting mothership stations.
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