AM clear channels...are they necessary anymore?

One of my favorite radio activities--like many of you--is to listen to far-away AM stations at night. What's not to love about being able to tune in to KMOX to hear a Cardinals game, to WSB to hear Larry Munson make another legendary call during a Georgia football game, or WBBM to hear about the latest construction project or accident on the Dan Ryan Expressway? With that said and despite their booming night signals, these stations only focus on the cities they originate from. Which begs the question, are the booming night signals necessary anymore?

In the Jackson area, we have AM stations on 780 and 1120 and they have to go off the air at sunset to make way for WBBM and KMOX, respectively. Why punish my area stations when WBBM and KMOX don't care to serve the Jackson area?

I don't expect the big night-time signals to go away anytime soon, but it seemed like a worthy topic to discuss.<P ID="signature">______________
"...and the countdown continues until the neanderthals that govern college football do something about their pathetic postseason."--Tim Brando, Sporting News Radio</P>

> One of my favorite radio activities--like many of you--is to
> listen to far-away AM stations at night. What's not to love
> about being able to tune in to KMOX to hear a Cardinals
> game, to WSB to hear Larry Munson make another legendary
> call during a Georgia football game, or WBBM to hear about
> the latest construction project or accident on the Dan Ryan
> Expressway? With that said and despite their booming night
> signals, these stations only focus on the cities they
> originate from. Which begs the question, are the booming
> night signals necessary anymore?

The skywave signal is not necessary, but the 50 kw are in order to cover, interference free, large metros.

> > One of my favorite radio activities--like many of you--is
> to
> > listen to far-away AM stations at night. What's not to
> love
> > about being able to tune in to KMOX to hear a Cardinals
> > game, to WSB to hear Larry Munson make another legendary
> > call during a Georgia football game, or WBBM to hear about
>
> > the latest construction project or accident on the Dan
> Ryan
> > Expressway? With that said and despite their booming night
>
> > signals, these stations only focus on the cities they
> > originate from. Which begs the question, are the booming
> > night signals necessary anymore?
>
> The skywave signal is not necessary, but the 50 kw are in
> order to cover, interference free, large metros.
>


<smarty pants mode ON>

Like
50kW Boise, ID
50kW Window Rock, AZ
50kW Omaha, Neb
50kW Reno NV
50kW Des Moines, IA
50kW Casper, WYO
50kW Shreveport, LA
50kW Tulsa, OK
50kW Wheeling, WV
50kW Waterloo, IA

and so on.....
</smarty pants mode off>

Also, won't a class-B or better FMs cover the large metros just as easily? I think the AM clear channels were set up way before FM was even on the drawing board.

> > > One of my favorite radio activities--like many of
> Which begs the question, are the booming
>
> > > night signals necessary anymore?
> >
> > The skywave signal is not necessary, but the 50 kw are in
> > order to cover, interference free, large metros.
> >
>
>
>
>
> Like
> 50kW Boise, ID
> 50kW Window Rock, AZ
> 50kW Omaha, Neb
> 50kW Reno NV
> 50kW Des Moines, IA
> 50kW Casper, WYO
> 50kW Shreveport, LA
> 50kW Tulsa, OK
> 50kW Wheeling, WV
> 50kW Waterloo, IA
>
> and so on.....
>

I can't speak to any other towns on your list, but there is an excellent reason why there is a 50 kW station in Window Rock, Arizona.

KTNN serves the sprawling Navajo Nation, an area roughly the size of West Virginia. The Navajo Nation is a largely (though not entirely) impoverished region with multiple small villages scattered about. There are a number of towns with perhaps a few thousand people, but most people live in remote regions. Though it has a mainstream Country format most of the time, KTNN also does Navajo language programming, including news and weather and sports. It's a valuable resource for the Navajo people and a potential lifesaver in terms of disseminating information about snowstorms, flash floods, etc. Since many Navajo have no phone or electricity, a battery-operated AM radio is their only connection to the outside world. One side benefit is that it carries high school basketball, a hugely popular sport on the Rez.

> Also, won't a class-B or better FMs cover the large metros
> just as easily? I think the AM clear channels were set up
> way before FM was even on the drawing board.

San Francisco, to use one example, has no FM that covers the entire metro, but has 3 AMs that do.
>

> >
> > The skywave signal is not necessary, but the 50 kw are in
> > order to cover, interference free, large metros.

>
> Like
> 50kW Boise, ID

Huge semi-rural trading area.

> 50kW Window Rock, AZ

Well covered by another post.

> 50kW Omaha, Neb

It is actually a very bid DMA /TSA

> 50kW Reno NV

Not needed.

> 50kW Des Moines, IA

Huge metro, large retail trading area.

> 50kW Casper, WYO

Underradioed state... the Casper trading area extends about 80 miles around.

> 50kW Shreveport, LA

It's on 1130 and directional. Not big coverage.

> 50kW Tulsa, OK

Another sizable DMA. 6 total counties, and large ones.

> 50kW Wheeling, WV

About the worst ground conductivity anywhere. Every watt needed to cover the metro.

> 50kW Waterloo, IA

1540? The nearby station on 600, WMT, covers more with 5 kw.

The 1500 50 kw station in DC has such bad coverage that it needs a coule of simulcast FMs to complete the coverage of the market.

> and so on.....
>

> > > One of my favorite radio activities--like many of you--is to
> > > listen to far-away AM stations at night. What's not to love
> > > about being able to tune in to KMOX to hear a Cardinals
> > > game, to WSB to hear Larry Munson make another legendary
> > > call during a Georgia football game, or WBBM to hear about
> > > the latest construction project or accident on the Dan Ryan
> > > Expressway? With that said and despite their booming night
> > > signals, these stations only focus on the cities they
> > > originate from. Which begs the question, are the booming
> > > night signals necessary anymore?
> >
> > The skywave signal is not necessary, but the 50 kw are in
> > order to cover, interference free, large metros.

>
> Like
> 50kW Boise, ID
Mountainous territory, geared toward strictly Idaho/E Oregon coverage at night (directional W-NE). Coverage to the south was cut off a few years ago, allowing other stations (notably Denver) to go on 670.

> 50kW Window Rock, AZ
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the Navajo Nation is HUGE! It's about 150x150 miles, about the size of WVA. KTNN is at the eastern end of the reservation, on the AZ-NM line (to protect WFAN). Much of its programming is in the Navajo language.

> 50kW Omaha, Neb
Covers the vast rural areas of Nebraska and NE Iowa at night.

> 50kW Reno NV
Mountanous territory as well. Not much coverage to the east at night due to WBBM.

> 50kW Des Moines, IA
Also covers a wide rural area.

> 50kW Casper, WYO
Ditto.

> 50kW Shreveport, LA
Don't know why KWKH needs to run 50 kW anymore. They are audible here in Phoenix on occasion during the winter.

> 50kW Tulsa, OK
Oklahoma is also mostly rural outside of the immediate OKC and Tulsa metros.

> 50kW Wheeling, WV
WWVA is also located in hilly country. Maybe 50 kW is absolutely necessary there.

> 50kW Waterloo, IA
50 kW on 1540 does worse than 5 kW on 600, as stated earlier. Covers 2 mid-size areas 60 miles apart, the rest is rural but considered part of the Waterloo/Cedar Rapids/Iowa City market.

> and so on.....

KRVN 880 Lexington NE also covers a vast rural area from central Nebraska. With their emphasis on farm programming (at least the last time I listened a few months ago), they are one station that actually serves its entire 50 kW coverage area, as does KTNN.

> San Francisco, to use one example, has no FM that
> covers the entire metro, but has 3 AMs that do.

David, what three make your list?

Wouldn't there be a fourth?

KNBR
KGO
KCBS (or does it have nulls in the metro?)

And...
the late Big 610, KFRC. We know it even gets
into SMF which contributed to Infinity (aka
the "other evil empire"...after last Friday)
having to divest it.

> > > > One of my favorite radio activities--like many of
> > Which begs the question, are the booming
> >
> > > > night signals necessary anymore?
> > >
> > > The skywave signal is not necessary, but the 50 kw are
> in
> > > order to cover, interference free, large metros.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Like
> > 50kW Boise, ID
> > 50kW Window Rock, AZ
> > 50kW Omaha, Neb
> > 50kW Reno NV
> > 50kW Des Moines, IA
> > 50kW Casper, WYO
> > 50kW Shreveport, LA
> > 50kW Tulsa, OK
> > 50kW Wheeling, WV
> > 50kW Waterloo, IA
> >
> > and so on.....
> >
>
> I can't speak to any other towns on your list, but there is
> an excellent reason why there is a 50 kW station in Window
> Rock, Arizona.
>
> KTNN serves the sprawling Navajo Nation, an area roughly the
> size of West Virginia. The Navajo Nation is a largely
> (though not entirely) impoverished region with multiple
> small villages scattered about. There are a number of towns
> with perhaps a few thousand people, but most people live in
> remote regions. Though it has a mainstream Country format
> most of the time, KTNN also does Navajo language
> programming, including news and weather and sports. It's a
> valuable resource for the Navajo people and a potential
> lifesaver in terms of disseminating information about
> snowstorms, flash floods, etc. Since many Navajo have no
> phone or electricity, a battery-operated AM radio is their
> only connection to the outside world. One side benefit is
> that it carries high school basketball, a hugely popular
> sport on the Rez.
>


This is exactly why I posted..... Though I know David that you are not a fan of skywave, there are instances where it is used. Granted the ratings dont mean much, but a station like WNAX in Yakton, SD or KTNN can utuilize the skywave. Also a station like WGN has farm reports that I am sure utilize skywave for the farmers, and I know there are advertisers that pay for that service. There are more examples that can be sited.

Is skywave utilized like it was in the past? No it is not, but it is still used. And yes advertisers do pay for that skywave signal.

> > 50kW Wheeling, WV
>
> About the worst ground conductivity anywhere. Every watt
> needed to cover the metro.

Let's put it this way: The 50kw AM tower site is in SE Ohio--Appalachian country. VERY VERY hilly.

Wheeling proper is below the Ohio River water level. It floods easily.

So, the choice for Wheeling service is:
(a) Hilly SE Ohio
(b) Hilly West Virginia
(c) Waterlogged Wheeling

It's a no-win situation.

> > San Francisco, to use one example, has no FM that
> > covers the entire metro, but has 3 AMs that do.
>
> David, what three make your list?
>
> Wouldn't there be a fourth?
>
> KNBR
> KGO
> KCBS (or does it have nulls in the metro?)

I would guess those three since I used to get signals at night in San Diego.<P ID="signature">______________
"...and the countdown continues until the neanderthals that govern college football do something about their pathetic postseason."--Tim Brando, Sporting News Radio</P>

> The 1500 50 kw station in DC has such bad coverage that it
> needs a coule of simulcast FMs to complete the coverage of
> the market.

It comes in pretty well up in New England at night (away from Boston's first adjacent 1510 WWZN).

> > San Francisco, to use one example, has no FM that
> > covers the entire metro, but has 3 AMs that do.
>
> David, what three make your list?
>
> Wouldn't there be a fourth?
>
> KNBR
> KGO
> KCBS (or does it have nulls in the metro?)
>
> And...
> the late Big 610, KFRC. We know it even gets
> into SMF which contributed to Infinity (aka
> the "other evil empire"...after last Friday)
> having to divest it.

610 does not have a really good signal in all the metro... but might be the 4th if you look at FCC definitions. The market, by the way, goes from N. f Santa Rosa to Campbell to the south.
>

> San Francisco, to use one example, has no FM that covers the
> entire metro, but has 3 AMs that do.

Why is it that relay stations have never been licenced as a matter of routine in the US, even in places like San Francisco where FM coverage of the whole city from one site is impossible? Over here in Europe stations with multiple transmitters to improve coverage are very common in mountainous areas.

What happens in very mountainous areas? In the Alps FM radio is almost entirely dependent on low powered relays to cover the majority of the population. Presumably there are many reasonably heavily populated parts of the US where FM reception is virtually non-existent due to the mountainous terrain.

> > San Francisco, to use one example, has no FM that covers
> the
> > entire metro, but has 3 AMs that do.
>
> Why is it that relay stations have never been licenced as a
> matter of routine in the US, even in places like San
> Francisco where FM coverage of the whole city from one site
> is impossible? Over here in Europe stations with multiple
> transmitters to improve coverage are very common in
> mountainous areas.
>

You will also find in Europe that there's less choice, these FM stations tend to be state broadcasters, and commercial stations have one or two stations in the area and hope for the best. In the US, there isn't such thing as a state broadcaster. So broadcasters put up what stick they can and hope for the best.

In rural Wales and Scotland, some of the new commercial offerings have opted for AM over FM in order to be able to get coverage in the hilly areas. It's cheaper and provided the better coverage. In some parts of Wales the only thing you can get on radio is longwave, and this is despite having repeaters on "regular" AM on the same frequency.

Mark.

Mark