I'm Kind of Enjoying Seeing All These Oldies Stations Flip...

It's amusing to read how frustrated some of the Oldies listeners are now that Oldies stations in cities like New York and Chicago have flipped. Some of the Rock stations seem to be in trouble too, and all of a sudden it's not just the Dance fans who have their problems on the radio.
I do think that Oldies will be back in most markets. The percentage of old people continues to grow in this country, and there will be a need to serve them. If traditional FM radio doesn't do this, other free mediums in the near future will. Either High Definition radio, where stations can split their signals, or the ability to listen to stations streaming online not just at home/in the office, but also in the car via cell phones.
Obviously the advancements of HD Radio and Internet Strams via cells will also be good for us Dance fans.

> It's amusing to read how frustrated some of the Oldies
> listeners are now that Oldies stations in cities like New
> York and Chicago have flipped. Some of the Rock stations
> seem to be in trouble too, and all of a sudden it's not just
> the Dance fans who have their problems on the radio.

Schadenfreude!

One part of me is genuinely sad that these people have lost their favorite stations, but another part says "Well, now you know how I feel. Get XM." At the very least, Oldies and Rock fans are getting a lesson in the harsh realities of the business.

There's a huge positive coming out of all this, and it's that all these format flips are causing more and more people to explore different ways of getting their favorite music. The typical Oldies listener in New York or Chicago would never have looked to the Internet or satellite radio before Friday. Now that's all changed, and the result is going to be that these new media are going to get more and more attention. The increasing viability of Internet and satellite can only be a good thing for dance music.

> I do think that Oldies will be back in most markets. The
> percentage of old people continues to grow in this country,
> and there will be a need to serve them.

I question this statement. Yes, the amount of older Americans is growing, but Oldies has never had a problem attracting listeners. The problem lies with the advertisers, who simply don't care about listeners 55+. This is because they think older listeners are set in their ways and cannot be influenced by advertising. If this perception continues, you may see Oldies shift to subscription media like satellite and Internet only.

Hey, in the "biz" of radio, Oldies is past it's prime. Next to pass it's prime will be the endless repetition of Led Zep and Pink Floyd songs. When I was 18, Led Zeppelin was classic rock...today, at 36, it's burned out rock. As a teen, I could hear Led Zep pumping outta B-lo....and today, on the same frequency, I can hear exactly the same thing. Same station, same songs.

And whats the future of radio sound like anyway? Classic dance stations? Classic alternative stations? Will their be "Rufus FM" an urban FM that sounds like Jack, playing everything "black" from the 80s, and 90s. None stop Johnny Gill records?

Figure Nirvana is 15 years old. The "dance" scene is 7 years old. Hiphop started 20 years ago.

> Hey, in the "biz" of radio, Oldies is past it's prime. Next
> to pass it's prime will be the endless repetition of Led Zep
> and Pink Floyd songs. When I was 18, Led Zeppelin was
> classic rock...today, at 36, it's burned out rock. As a
> teen, I could hear Led Zep pumping outta B-lo....and today,
> on the same frequency, I can hear exactly the same thing.
> Same station, same songs.
>
> And whats the future of radio sound like anyway? Classic
> dance stations? Classic alternative stations? Will their
> be "Rufus FM" an urban FM that sounds like Jack, playing
> everything "black" from the 80s, and 90s. None stop Johnny
> Gill records?

LOL, a station that plays "Rub You The Right Way" every hour, and the occasional New Edition record like "If It Isn't Love".
>
> Figure Nirvana is 15 years old. The "dance" scene is 7
> years old. Hiphop started 20 years ago.
>
The Dance scene is 7 years old?!
The modern Dance era goes back to 1974, to the start of the Disco craze - that's over 30 years. Electronic Dance music also came to be around the mid 70s timeframe with Kraftwerk and Georgio Moroder. Euro-Pop (or at the time Euro-Disco), Electro, and Italo were already around in the late 70s if I'm not mistaken. From there on you can add New Wave, High Energy, and a bit later Funky Breaks. by the mid 80s you had House, Freestyle, and by the late 80s Techno.
The 90s saw the birth of genres such as Rave, Trance, Drum N Bass, Hard Dance, etc.

I'm sure fellow board members like musiclover, lalumia, Metro, John Parker, Robert Moore, or Richard Dalton can add on to the info above.

> The Dance scene is 7 years old?!
> The modern Dance era goes back to 1974, to the start of the
> Disco craze - that's over 30 years. Electronic Dance music
> also came to be around the mid 70s timeframe with Kraftwerk
> and Georgio Moroder. Euro-Pop (or at the time Euro-Disco),
> Electro, and Italo were already around in the late 70s if
> I'm not mistaken. From there on you can add New Wave, High
> Energy, and a bit later Funky Breaks. by the mid 80s you had
> House, Freestyle, and by the late 80s Techno.
> The 90s saw the birth of genres such as Rave, Trance, Drum N
> Bass, Hard Dance, etc.
>
> I'm sure fellow board members like musiclover, lalumia,
> Metro, John Parker, Robert Moore, or Richard Dalton can add
> on to the info above.

CHRles is right on the money with that post. Dance began its birth as Disco in 1974, although its evolution began earlier than that thanks to Barry White and his Love Unlimited Orchestra, The Hues Corporation, MFSB and George McCrae, all of whom had #1 songs on the Billboard Hot 100 that same year. In fact Billboard published its first Disco chart[Then known as "Disco Action"] on October 26 of that year. Gloria Gaynor's remake of the Jackson 5ive's "Never Can Say Goodbye" was the first #1.

> > The Dance scene is 7 years old?!
> > The modern Dance era goes back to 1974, to the start of
> the
> > Disco craze - that's over 30 years. Electronic Dance music
>
> > also came to be around the mid 70s timeframe with
> Kraftwerk
> > and Georgio Moroder. Euro-Pop (or at the time Euro-Disco),
>
> > Electro, and Italo were already around in the late 70s if
> > I'm not mistaken. From there on you can add New Wave, High
>
> > Energy, and a bit later Funky Breaks. by the mid 80s you
> had
> > House, Freestyle, and by the late 80s Techno.
> > The 90s saw the birth of genres such as Rave, Trance, Drum
> N
> > Bass, Hard Dance, etc.
> >
> > I'm sure fellow board members like musiclover, lalumia,
> > Metro, John Parker, Robert Moore, or Richard Dalton can
> add
> > on to the info above.
>
> CHRles is right on the money with that post. Dance began its
> birth as Disco in 1974, although its evolution began earlier
> than that thanks to Barry White and his Love Unlimited
> Orchestra, The Hues Corporation, MFSB and George McCrae, all
> of whom had #1 songs on the Billboard Hot 100 that same
> year. In fact Billboard published its first Disco chart[Then
> known as "Disco Action"] on October 26 of that year. Gloria
> Gaynor's remake of the Jackson 5ive's "Never Can Say
> Goodbye" was the first #1.
>
To truly be accurate, teen pop has always been dance music, with the mid 50s "youth quake' and the birth of rock and roll, djs began playing r&b based pop records to dance to,which is what disco started as, growing out of 60s Motown hits, which were also disco(teque) records.The 50s crazes,celebrated in "Hairspray"(the Slop, the Madison,the Stroll,etc) gave way to the 60s twist,frug, hully gully, etcover which such as Chubby Checker, and later, Motown, held sway;that, in turn, as a way of getting away from hippies listening to 4 hour drum solos whilst tripping on blotter acid,gave way to the 70s 'glam' Studio 54 scene,and the actual birth of "disco" which had always been there in one form or another.By the 80s,the hard edge of 'new wave" dance provided the pretense of "rock & roll" for the MTV generation,and in the 90s ,we lost the 'plot", as dance lost stars, vocals and lyrics,as dj culture took over and chased away the mainstream audience(a problem some of us are attempting to correct at the moment!)

I thought it all started with the Macarena!!!<P ID="signature">______________
http://www.RichardJDalton.com</P>

> Next
> > to pass it's prime will be the endless repetition of Led
> Zep
> > and Pink Floyd songs. When I was 18, Led Zeppelin was
> > classic rock...today, at 36, it's burned out rock.

So true.


> >
> > And whats the future of radio sound like anyway? Classic
> > dance stations? Classic alternative stations? Will their
>
> > be "Rufus FM" an urban FM that sounds like Jack, playing
> > everything "black" from the 80s, and 90s. None stop
> Johnny
> > Gill records?

Jack is just a name for something that has no definition. It's for lack of a better word. It's an umbrella for an incoherent format. As far as Rufus FM. I like that idea but I don't know how much upside there'd be in the revenue. The Jammin' Oldies stations would cover most of that stuff. Let's not forget My, My, My and Fairweather Friend by Johnny Gill!

>
> LOL, a station that plays "Rub You The Right Way" every
> hour, and the occasional New Edition record like "If It
> Isn't Love".
> >

Or the bootleg concert version of Candy Girl at a mall in 1983!

> > Figure Nirvana is 15 years old. The "dance" scene is 7
> > years old. Hiphop started 20 years ago.
> >

It all depends on what you perceive as dance music. Disco was something that was popular in Europe in the "discotheques" as far back as the latter 60s. In the 70s it was popular in areas of the country that weren't living in the "good 'ol boys" days. Major urban areas that had diversity in culture were experiencing disco music. Disco's were playing O'Jays, Ohio Players, Gloria Gaynor (Honey Bee), Temptations and more. It was more R&B flavored until the mid to latter part of the 70s. As the latter 70s came along the European producers such as Alec R. Costandinos, Cerrone, the Canadians (see Prelude Records), and the Italians who ruled the roost into the 80s (Pugla, Ninzatti, Bortolotti)all had huge "dance" records. There were pop hits like David Naughton's Makin' It, Dan Hartman's "Instant Replay" (and countless others) then the R&B artists from the past began doing "disco" or "dance musci" like Edwin Starr crossing the tempo lines with H.A.P.P.Y. Radio, Contact, Gene Chandler with "Get Down", Barry White with "Your Sweetness Is My Weakness". Even Dolly Parton got into the game, then the Rolling Stones, Rod Stewart, Marianne Faithful and more. Once disco "died" there were the Italians making club music, the Canadians and R&B artists doing "dance" music. Jerry Knight, Carl Carlton, Rick James, Skyy, The Strikers, Sparque, Fantasy, Gap Band, Dynasty, Shalamar, Lakeside, Whispers, AMFM, Weeks & Co., D Train, The Graingers, Yarborough & Peoples, Bootsy, George Clinton, Quincy Jones, Larry Graham, these artists were being spun as dance music in the straight clubs [in the major markets] to dance to in the very early 80s. There was still "disco" being made and produced by Ian Anthony Stephens, Patrick Cowley, Boris Midney etc. Artists like Marlena Shaw, Rhetta Hughes, The Jammers, The Flirtations etc (see Megatone and Moby Dick records). but that was mostly in the gay clubs. When it came to dance music for the "masses" clubs followed urban radio because they were the only places one could find "dance music". While Depeche Mode and other "electronic" based groups were "dance" music, they were predominately at the gay clubs and breaking in at the college levels (early 80s) Dance music has many faces and has been around for quite a bit longer than you believe.

Hip Hop didn't "start" 20 years ago. Rap's been around for about 30 years, Most white folks only became aware of "rap" music when The Sugarhill Gang crossed over with "Rapper's Delight". It took a few years for kids in cities like Chicago, L.A., NYC and other cities where white kids were allowed to hear RAP. See, there wasn't a white owned radio station that would play LL Cool J, Whodini, Doug E. Fresh, Run DMC and the other groundbreakers until the latter 80s, a full decade after the music started. And it would take until 1993 for white radio to play "hip-hop" on a regular basis. By the latter 90s it had gone from a small percentage of programming for CHR radio to ALL OF IT and because of the mainstream acceptance of black artists the "Rhythmic" CHR was born. Many Rhythmic CHR's consider JaRule and much of the music they play dance music because in the largely Hispanic and Black areas, that's what it is. When white folks were finally allowed to hear and see rap music they saw people dancing and it became dance music for the younger generation. It's sad to see how it has all turned out. Marketing has been able to turn all that's negative into positives hence "the hip hop culture"

"Hip-Hop" became the marketing term for rap music, a "lifestyle". Perhaps you mispoke about dance and hip-hip?


> The Dance scene is 7 years old?!
> The modern Dance era goes back to 1974, to the start of the
> Disco craze - that's over 30 years. Electronic Dance music
> also came to be around the mid 70s timeframe with Kraftwerk
> and Georgio Moroder. Euro-Pop (or at the time Euro-Disco),
> Electro, and Italo were already around in the late 70s if
> I'm not mistaken. From there on you can add New Wave, High
> Energy, and a bit later Funky Breaks. by the mid 80s you had
> House, Freestyle, and by the late 80s Techno.
> The 90s saw the birth of genres such as Rave, Trance, Drum N
> Bass, Hard Dance, etc.
>
> I'm sure fellow board members like musiclover, lalumia,
> Metro, John Parker, Robert Moore, or Richard Dalton can add
> on to the info above.
>

You're right, it did.

I guess it all depends on what you call dance. Everything has a different sound to it of course, but the thumping beats where the other instruments took a back seat, pretty much started with disco. Some of the 60's music was sort of dancy but lacked enough beat to be called anything but rock, really. The first roots of something sounding at all like what we play today, would be disco.

In fact many of our artists do style themselves to a some extent to sound like disco. There's nothing wrong with it. Every genre has a beginning. When most people talk about the beginning of something, they don't mean the first time someone sat in their bedroom and hummed it, but when did radio began to play it, and consequently record sales began to get signifigant.

<soapbox>
It seems like when someone asks when a format began they get a freaking history lesson on geography, economics, world politics and host of other (BLEEP) no one cares about. It started with disco.</soapbox>

Wes

> I thought it all started with the Macarena!!!
>

When I said 20 years, I was referring to the music in the commercial sense. I'd say that in recent history, the late 90's were the best years for dance music (it was the peak of the rave scene). I'd agree that disco was also a peak of dance, and really was the beginning of the music. But I'd also say that Motown brought us dance, at least as far as House music goes. Earth Wind & Fire is one example. Yes, they are "urban", but....they also sound pretty housey. When Phats and Small remixed the song, they didn't have to change much, did they.

Disco was the first form of music I listened too. I've still got the old tapes (I admit, I illegally taped the radio) and some of the disco has a real urban sound to it.

I'd guess it was Tom Moulton that brought in the "remix" and it was gay culture that embraced the sound first.

Anyone remember when "Disco sucked"?