Convicted Heavy Metal ‘Christian’ Singer Admits Being Atheist, Duped Fans

[landtuna]

She got a divorce. That runs afoul many fundamentalists who think all divorce is wrong. I've talked with Amy. Her reasons are valid, and any reasonable person hearing the details would be on her side. Lovely lady - inside and out.

Unbelievable!

 

[landtuna]

Sorry for the confusion folks! I never meant to criticize "Morning Has Broken" the hymn. I just could not in all good conscience play the Cat Stevens version on a Christian station when he abandoned the truth of God through Jesus Christ for a lie from satan. People might have taken that as an endorsement of the false religion of Islam.

And just how do you or your followers know that Islam isn't right? After all, both are based in thin air.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Those "Christians" (who really aren't) are the biggest problem for Christians. Your horror stories reminded me of a short,
5-minute, most likely, brokered program that ran during afternoon drive time on a Gospel station back in the 1970s. The guy, (note that I'm not calling him a Preacher), was asking all ladies to call him to get in touch with Christ. It hit me as rather creepy as he mentioned a number of times that only ladies should call the number he gave out over the air. I thought, right away, that if I was a woman, there would be no way I was going to call this guy.

I hope that, in the end, the teenage girl was not harmed. Why was the teenage girl there to begin with. Were charges pressed? I also wonder how the guy who beat his wife squared that with the Gospel he was preaching on-air. Wasn't he listening to his own sermons?

It is not as sinister as it sounded. Both were on-air talent Apparently the two had a history of pranks on each other. Her prank on him, though, made him extremely angry for some reason. She ran to the bathroom and locked the door. I am still disturbed by the incident, though, on two levels. One is the anger. Nobody, especially a Christian, should get so angry they break down a door. 2 - it crosses a line of privacy. What if she had taken the opportunity to relieve herself. He could have burst in on her in a state of undress. Such behavior at any radio station in the country would and should get both parties terminated immediately. I wasn't there that night, but I would have been on top of it if I had. Neither party is involved in Christian radio now that I know of.

The preacher that beat his wife was a preacher. Station ownership valued preaching - no matter what the source - more than a Christian rock show. Even though we generated huge ratings. They also valued the slobs who almost caused fires more than us - allowing them to steal time from our show. Unprofessional - and theft.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

And just how do you or your followers know that Islam isn't right? After all, both are based in thin air.

Don't worry about it - if you aren't a Christian believer, you are entitled to your opinions. I doubt they will bother anybody on here. I doubt anybody here cares what your opinion is. It makes me wonder, though, why you would bother posting on a board that talks about Christian radio. It ought to be an anathema to an atheist. Personally, if I didn't believe in God, I wouldn't bother listening to Christian radio, or talking about it. I'd be over on boards more interesting to my belief - or lack thereof - system.

 

[landtuna]

Don't worry about it - if you aren't a Christian believer, you are entitled to your opinions. I doubt they will bother anybody on here. I doubt anybody here cares what your opinion is. It makes me wonder, though, why you would bother posting on a board that talks about Christian radio. It ought to be an anathema to an atheist. Personally, if I didn't believe in God, I wouldn't bother listening to Christian radio, or talking about it. I'd be over on boards more interesting to my belief - or lack thereof - system.

Correction, I am not a religious believer. Somewhat more encompassing.

Secondly, I explained earlier why I posted on this thread.

I don't listen to CCM although I was subjected to it on occasion. From a purely talent standpoint I consider it without merit and severely repetitious.

I repeat my last question: How do Christians determine their god is the real one? There are dozens of gods existing in the world's various religions (perhaps more than that) and each considers theirs to be the real one. On what basis?

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Correction, I am not a religious believer. Somewhat more encompassing.

Secondly, I explained earlier why I posted on this thread.

I don't listen to CCM although I was subjected to it on occasion. From a purely talent standpoint I consider it without merit and severely repetitious.

I repeat my last question: How do Christians determine their god is the real one? There are dozens of gods existing in the world's various religions (perhaps more than that) and each considers theirs to be the real one. On what basis?

This isn't the forum for religious debate. It is a radio forum. Suffice it to say - Jesus' tomb is empty.

I totally agree with you about the lack of talent on Christian radio. It was taking a really good direction in the early 90's. A lot of secular artists from the 60's and 70's had already made their fortunes, and as they aged they took a more conservative bent. Things like God and religion became more important as they raised families. And a few took to doing Christian music. A lot of Christian artists, inspired by 60's through 80's rock and roll began to produce Christian music. A lot of it was very good, but you are unlikely to find Christian oldies out there. My personal opinion - once people found God and got off of drugs and alcohol, the things that were hurting their creativity, they produced even better music. Artists started crossing over to secular radio, a lot of them. Things like "Between You and Me" by DC Talk, "Flood" by Jars of Clay. WCIE found them 8 months before secular radio did - the local alternative rock station called ME to find out what other songs were good radio cuts from that CD! I told them "Love Song for a Savior". I warned them their audience might not receive its message well. They played it anyway - people loved it, too! 99X in Atlanta picked up Jars of Clay, and they went national shortly afterward. Just a couple of examples, there are lots more.

That was a golden age in the late 80's to early 90's. Had Christian music and Christian radio continued on that course, I think it would be a force to be reckoned with in the radio business. I think it would have been much more effective in what its supposed mission was - to persuade people to become Christians. We had 3000 people at Daytona Beach going to a Newsboys concert, while Eric Clapton barely had 300 people at a hotel down the beach. I think Christian music needed a Christian version of Dick Clark around that time.

What happened instead is sad. There have always been people in conservative churches that do not like Christian rock music. They are vocal, they are mean, they are vindictive. I could give you some choice examples, but if you want to look at something really pathetic - try av1611.org. I actually agree with a lot on their web site, but their sad devotion to an outdated Bible translation, and their vitriolic hatred of Christian rock music leads me to believe they are less about they Christ they profess and more about controlling people. They. and people like Dave Wilkerson and Bill Gothard were powerful voices against Christian rock, they gained quite a foothold in churches. The Nashville Christian record labels responded by putting out inoffensive fluff called "praise and worship". Better suited for sing-songs around campfires and as pseudo hymns in churches, it didn't have the "evil beat" or use the "evil instruments". It was performed by clean cut Brady Bunch cookie cutter artists who were supposed to have squeaky clean images. It was musical GARBAGE. And people, especially young people, tuned out of Christian radio in droves. Christian radio has never recovered from the blow. Soccer mom Christian radio rates well among the demographics that write donation checks - because soccer moms THINK they are doing the right thing for their kids. The problem is - around 9, 10, 11, the kids discover, or are told about secular radio and they NEVER turn back to Christian radio. Christian radio is AWFUL for the most part. Completely irrelevant to the culture of today and young people, completely fails to attract unbelievers to the Christian faith. It is a little closed club that has a following in people that go to church all the time, and nobody that doesn't already go to church like you. Frankly - I feel the need to apologize to you for the awful quality of most Christian radio. It is sickeningly bland, and even Jesus says He would spew lukewarm things out of His mouth. Yeah, praise and worship music pretty much makes me want to vomit, too!

I have a request. Could you go to http://ngenradio.com/ and give it a listen? It is the weirdest mix of hip-hop and rock, but it somehow works for its target audience. I would be interested in your perspective, musically. Is it creative - would it stand on its own musically, completely disassociated for the moment from its Christian intent? You are in a position to either confirm that Christian radio is coming out of the dark age, or confirm that Christian artists as a whole aren't competitive with their secular counterparts. Either way, it would be valuable insight.

 

[johnbasalla]

A most interesting read, Mr. Carter. I see where you're coming from. The student-run radio station I'm associated with has had an Alternative Rock, and more lately a slightly AAA bent, since 1990. We started adding a good number of Christian Rock throughout much of the 1990s and into the 21st Century. We added a lot more then, then we do now. One of the biggest songs in the mid-1990s for us was "Reality" by The Newsboys. The students absolutely loved it and put it into heavy rotation. And, they weren't specifically looking for Christian music. It was just a hot tune, period. In fact one of the students, who readily shared that she was not a Believer, couldn't get enough of it because, musically, it was a hot tune. She may not have even realized that the song may have been ministering to her... "...Reality, it comes from above. God is calling. There's no greater love!" Still, today there is good "Positive Rock" music out there. Switchfoot is a regular visitor to our rotation, for example.

 

[landtuna]

I have a request. Could you go to http://ngenradio.com/ and give it a listen? It is the weirdest mix of hip-hop and rock, but it somehow works for its target audience. I would be interested in your perspective, musically. Is it creative - would it stand on its own musically, completely disassociated for the moment from its Christian intent? You are in a position to either confirm that Christian radio is coming out of the dark age, or confirm that Christian artists as a whole aren't competitive with their secular counterparts. Either way, it would be valuable insight.

I did as you asked but I am the wrong person to give a comparison between secular and religious hip-hop. Except for the music itself it sounds a great deal like K-Love and Air-1 with "listener" messages played between songs. The messages seem to have a very common theme but they are very shallow and offer no unique experience or foundation for the "solutions" the listener is claiming. I would call these circular messages.

The music itself is very forgettable to me but then I am not in their target age. I honestly have no idea whether a modern teen would like it or not (the music, not necessarily the message). Without respect to the lyrics the music seems like that played on pre-teen programs like Radio Disney which might appeal largely to females but not males.

I heard three songs. The first was what I would call "soft rap". It was in the same manner as rap but without some of the harshness. I did not listen to the lyrics or try to compare them to a secular version. Rap is very offensive to me so I am not likely to listen to much of it before blowing a fuse.

The next two were much more hip-hoppish but sounded enough alike that I don't think an adult listener like me would or could separate them. One song just sort of blended into the next as modern teen-oriented music tends to do. I would not have called either one of these songs dance music but both had that typical heavy back beat that would suggest dance (EDM?). Kind of like the same music you would hear in a night club background.

When I was in the target age for this music there was a certain "rebellion" element attached to it - it was popular because we kids liked it but our parents didn't. I may have been one of the oddball kids but I didn't mind listening to my parents music (late 30's through early 50's) although I didn't make a habit of it. I still enjoy Big Band and some of the great vocalists of that era (but not necessarily their modern counterparts). I did not get a feeling that this music would either attract or repel today's parent although I can't remember any modern young parent listening to anything like this in my presence.

My wife listens almost exclusively to either K-love or Air-1 (I can't remember which exactly) and I have commented to her on many occasions that the music on those stations is just loud noise (similar to the hair band music on secular stations). I think the music may be better received by teens and young adults on Ngen than on the other two stations from a musical standpoint but I am also unsure if that makes a lot of difference to them.

P.S. It might come as some sort of shock to you, or perhaps not, that one of my all time favorite songs (going back to my youth) was Brenda Lee's version of "Rusty Bells".

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I did as you asked but I am the wrong person to give a comparison between secular and religious hip-hop. Except for the music itself it sounds a great deal like K-Love and Air-1 with "listener" messages played between songs. The messages seem to have a very common theme but they are very shallow and offer no unique experience or foundation for the "solutions" the listener is claiming. I would call these circular messages.

The music itself is very forgettable to me but then I am not in their target age. I honestly have no idea whether a modern teen would like it or not (the music, not necessarily the message). Without respect to the lyrics the music seems like that played on pre-teen programs like Radio Disney which might appeal largely to females but not males.

I heard three songs. The first was what I would call "soft rap". It was in the same manner as rap but without some of the harshness. I did not listen to the lyrics or try to compare them to a secular version. Rap is very offensive to me so I am not likely to listen to much of it before blowing a fuse.

The next two were much more hip-hoppish but sounded enough alike that I don't think an adult listener like me would or could separate them. One song just sort of blended into the next as modern teen-oriented music tends to do. I would not have called either one of these songs dance music but both had that typical heavy back beat that would suggest dance (EDM?). Kind of like the same music you would hear in a night club background.

When I was in the target age for this music there was a certain "rebellion" element attached to it - it was popular because we kids liked it but our parents didn't. I may have been one of the oddball kids but I didn't mind listening to my parents music (late 30's through early 50's) although I didn't make a habit of it. I still enjoy Big Band and some of the great vocalists of that era (but not necessarily their modern counterparts). I did not get a feeling that this music would either attract or repel today's parent although I can't remember any modern young parent listening to anything like this in my presence.

My wife listens almost exclusively to either K-love or Air-1 (I can't remember which exactly) and I have commented to her on many occasions that the music on those stations is just loud noise (similar to the hair band music on secular stations). I think the music may be better received by teens and young adults on Ngen than on the other two stations from a musical standpoint but I am also unsure if that makes a lot of difference to them.

P.S. It might come as some sort of shock to you, or perhaps not, that one of my all time favorite songs (going back to my youth) was Brenda Lee's version of "Rusty Bells".

This is great insight! Thanks - I appreciate it. It is unfortunate that you got three rap / hip-hop songs and didn't get to sample the rock. Houston combines hip-hop and rock into one feed - there is a similar station in Orlando that separates hip-hop on one channel and rock on another. I would ask you to give the rock a try but you have already been generous with your time. Hip-hop - Christian or not - is not my cup of tea either, at the very best it gets monotonous. At its worst it sounds like angry black men yelling.

I think you comment about it having a rebellion aspect rings very true, and may be one of the sources of resistance in the church and radio industry. Rebellion - which is really a search for an identity outside the family and individuality - is definitely something most Christian parents and youth leaders would like to suppress. They would be wrong to do so. Without rebellion there never would have been a Christian church to begin with - the price of admission to Christianity was once a one-way ticket to the Colliseum floor. In a twisted irony, I am actually descended from Nero. Without rebellion there would have been no reformation, no American Revolution. If rebellion can be seen for what it is - a cry for a unique identity, it can be re-directed into positive directions. If a Christian kid HAS to rebel, it is awfully nice to have music with constructive lyrics that won't be dragging somebody down.

Yep - Brenda Lee was a great artist! I like pretty much all of her songs. I think knowing the great songs of the 50's, 60's, and 70's helped me to screen Christian music after the labels abandoned us. I could get the most creative stuff that matched songs that had been popular, or were currently popular at the time.

The comparison to Radio Disney is interesting - I always thought of Radio Disney as just a branded version of top-40, top-40 with some artists unique to Disney Channel added.

 

[boombox4]

Except that the difference between theory and fact is not whether people believe one or the other but whether one can be proven and the other can't. I will leave you to sort out the specifics.

The absence of religious overtones does remove a certain amount of conflict in Aristotle and Socrates but from what I have read there is much from both surviving to this day to prove them real. Even the most Jesus-educated scholars cannot make that claim - and, it always seems to be that the people trying to prove he was a real person have a vested interest.

In history -- very little beyond the advent of the printing press can actually be "proven". Even recent history has holes in it. For example, who shot Kennedy? There are probably hundreds of books giving "evidence" it was not a single assassin. There is as much evidence given that it was just one guy.

And that event only took place 51 years ago.

 

[landtuna]

In history -- very little beyond the advent of the printing press can actually be "proven". Even recent history has holes in it. For example, who shot Kennedy? There are probably hundreds of books giving "evidence" it was not a single assassin. There is as much evidence given that it was just one guy.

And that event only took place 51 years ago.

It is somewhat ironic that we definitely know who shot Lincoln but not Kennedy. Or perhaps we do and he was just silenced before the truth came out publicly. Those unfortunate events though are very different than maintaining that George Washington didn't exist, or Bluebeard, or Sitting Bull etc. There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of unsolved crimes even in the past several centuries. There are probably even more that are not known as crimes - someone just disappears. I just read yesterday about two cars found in a shallow lake with 3 bodies each inside. They were almost in plain sight but not found for over half a century.

In the example under discussion we were discussing Jesus - according to church and popular doctrine a person with magical powers who performed 'miracles' in front of thousands and spoke very revolutionary ideas in a society as closed as Nazi Germany - yet there is almost a complete absence of detailed information about him throughout his life except for the 'miracles' he was said to perform. When he lived he lived at the cultural center of the Western World yet he was virtually ignored by hundreds of scholars of the day. How does this happen? Given the influence his acts should have had on the local populace he should have had more media attention than the Kardashians, yet....virtually nothing. Nothing to back up any of the Biblical stories.

Someone sees an image of Christ in a piece of toast in France and the world goes wild yet.....no one, not one person alive in the past two thousand years knows what Jesus looked like. There are statues and figurines of virtually every other important person in every country in the world but not a single one of the Son of God? No paintings. Not even a chalk drawing on a cave wall. Nada. Nothing but icons produced centuries after the fact.

I can only come to the conclusion that back in the very early days of human existence some bright individual decided that if was able to assert dominance over his fellow humans he could live an easier life and make a buck or two along the way. Viola! Religion became the first instance of a government - a government in which the ordinary person believed the ever more magical stories he was told and then threatened with a vengeful deity. Even though there is absolutely nothing to back up all these stories enough people believed them that they would commit all sort of crimes to defend them against the heretics who believed other stories, even breaking their own rules to do so. This makes no sense to me, nor to an ever growing number of other humans who shun the posturing and the lies. This says it best:

The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history. -unknown

" Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal

We raise hell when we discover an organization deceiving the public through fraud or theft yet there are no limitations on either radio or TV to hold them accountable for what is preached over their airways. Not even when it involves fleecing the flock to support the obviously fraudulent preacher. Disgusting!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Lantuna - still want to discuss Christian RADIO? I would hate for you to be dismissed as a mere troll, because I believe better of you. As a non-religious individual, you have insights that are unique, and outside observer.

Your observation about circular reasoning on NGEN is valid. Even though I am a Christian believer, I believe their presentation to be aimed at a low common denominator. I think their target audience is more sophisticated intellectually than the give them credit for. By the time a kid or young professional ends up at NGEN, they have been pretty beat up by, or ignored by, traditional religious avenues. They are already pegged as a rebellious outsider - yet they stubbornly hold on to their Christian faith. That means they need some more meaty material from the DJ's than the simplistic stuff.

I am still interested in your opinions on the musical creativity of Christian radio. Since your first foray ended up in hip-hop, I suggest a different feed: http://zradio.org/listen/ The feed is the lower right - 103.7 The Rock. That should get you away from the hip-hop.

My dilemma is that I am too close to the situation. I am faced with a completely new set of artists and songs absolutely different from the secular classic rock, modern rock, alternative rock, active rock formats. And you and I both know - even though they aren't Christian, they are really good. Extremely talented people doing great things musically. If Christian rock is to compete, it must be equally good. My impression is that it may not - and that is with a motivation to give it every chance. But is my perception more one of familiarity with secular rock, and I could never be fair and impartial to something new, or is there still a gap in the talent level. I am not saying that Christian rock isn't good - it is - but nobody is going to get rich off of it. So the really talented people, even if they are Christians, are going to want to make a living and be really tempted to go the secular route. Its a big question, and you are in a position to help with the answer. The solution, unfortunately, will be much harder.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

May I compliment both LandTuna and RBruceCarter5 for taking a topic that often gets quashed by moderators on various types of discussion boards and exploring the topic vigorously and graciously. (And a complement to our board management for letting the discussion continue to flourish.)

Through the years I have approached this topic from both sides. And the "friction" of this topic as applied to broadcasting has morphed.... (can I say EVOLVED? ) through the years.

In my broadcasting years I wore a lot of hats including that of the engineer/technician. In recent years I have made that technical skill (???) and talent (???) available to houses of worship. To keep up with things I also participate in discussion groups about sound/video/lighting in the teaching and worship venue.

There was a time when "church" in this country was primarily through small, simple groups of people in small simple facilities. There was a time when religious expression on radio in this country was primarily through small, simple transfer of the teaching and liturgy of the small simple group onto the radio for a limited amount of time.

As broadcasting changed, station operators began to see interrupting the flow of their modern formats to insert the expression of religious thought as an audience killer and time slots became fewer, and restriction on content became more specific. A few pioneers established broadcast channels devoted entirely to religious thought. Back in a simpler time I managed one of those new "experiments".

Today the trade journals and trade shows and seminars on the "technology of religious expression" are beginning to drive the design of the "building used for worship" and that over time will drive the "content and results of worship". Welcome to the commercial world.

Today the recording industry and the religious concert industry are beginning to drive the "program content of the worship process". Hello Church... welcome to the commercial world!

For those of you sitting on the sidelines of the discussion of this thread, let me suggest a couple of authors and resources if you want to explore the non-broadcast content of this thread. Joseph Campbell started out in life to become a Catholic priest but went on a life long personal journey to explore for himself all the content touched on by LandTuna and RBruceCarter5.... and more. He eventually became "priest in residence" for the creators of the Star Wars movie series. See if your library has the videal series from 20 or 2 years ago when on PBS Bill Moyers did a series of interviews with Campbell. Be ready to have your mind stretched!

The other author that "covers the waterfront" on these discussions is Karen Armstrong who wrote books entitled The History of God and The Battle for God and some others.

When you have finished your home work, your assigned reading and viewing... then come back for an "eyes wide open" discussion of what kind of religion related content belongs in today's world of broadcasting. And what would be the purpose, the goal of such broadcast content.

 

[landtuna]

Lantuna - still want to discuss Christian RADIO? I would hate for you to be dismissed as a mere troll, because I believe better of you. As a non-religious individual, you have insights that are unique, and outside observer.

Thank you. I have tried to express my issues without pointing a finger at anyone specifically. I continue and respect everyone's right to believe as they will although I do question their reasoning. I was raised in the Episcopal Church which was then just one click to the left of the Catholics. It has apparently gotten much more liberal in the years since I left but at the time it was, in effect, "Catholics in English". As I grew older and began questioning both my parents and church leadership I found they could not answer most of my basic questions and, in the end, it came down to "we believe because we believe". If that is a person's choice and they don't need anything more then I can accept that but it didn't solve my issues. My wife and her family are serious Christians and we have had some interesting group talks about theology but it always comes down to the circular reasoning. And my personal issues are not just religion related. If I were to receive an answer to a scientific question that was "just have faith" I would dismiss that scientist and their field equally.

At about age 14 I began attending churches other than Episcopal to see if they had anything different to offer. I went to most of the Protestant versions and even tried a Jewish synagogue for a while. Although I learned a lot I didn't get answers to my basic questions and found the Protestants a bit light and the Jews too controlling. In the end I quit attending altogether and adopted my current outlook. But before I left I did belong to a variety of church groups for teens and found some to be like the Y and others to be quite preachy. In general they were more like that portrayed by "Rev. Tim Tom" on "The Middle" using parables and musical prayers and worship to get their message across. I don't remember any CCM-type radio in those days (I am omitting the fire-and-brimstone preaching because it definitely didn't appeal to teens). I suppose today's radio tries to reach teens using what they think would attract the average person of that age, music.

I don't know if CCM is working or not. I am exposed to it through my wife but not enough to know whether that appeal is for people already believing the message or whether it would attract new believers. And obviously my wife is well outside the target demo if attraction is the main purpose. There are others in her family, nieces and nephews mainly, who also listen to CCM as their main form of music but they were raised as she was and have never turned away. I don't have much exposure to teens any longer since my kids are into their young adult years but I never noticed any of their friends, even the ones who were regular church goers, listening to CCM. The little kids in the family are too young yet to make their own choices as to the music or messages they like.

Your observation about circular reasoning on NGEN is valid. Even though I am a Christian believer, I believe their presentation to be aimed at a low common denominator. I think their target audience is more sophisticated intellectually than the give them credit for. By the time a kid or young professional ends up at NGEN, they have been pretty beat up by, or ignored by, traditional religious avenues. They are already pegged as a rebellious outsider - yet they stubbornly hold on to their Christian faith. That means they need some more meaty material from the DJ's than the simplistic stuff.

I suspect there are a ton of teens out there that are questioning everything about religion just as I did. The problem I had was that there are no real answers, at least the ones you can touch and feel. It is, after all, faith. We are taught in school to use our brains, common sense and education to figure things out but in religion's case we are not given enough verifiable information to do so. It is very confusing and I haven't heard CCM address that. They seem to be focused upon the "feel good" type message without addressing the real questions. A typical CCM message is someone claiming "I found Jesus and now everything is great" but what does that really mean? A teen who believes his or her world is coming apart because of family problems, a broken relationship or any one of the myriad issues facing teens today cannot really apply that statement to their personal life. Perhaps there are programs on CCM radio that address those but I haven't heard of any (again, I am not the ultimate authority either). I would think that an older adult who can communicate in teen's terms about their problems and possible solutions (including a religious aspect if appropriate) would likely have a terrific marketing opportunity because I think teens are looking for answers in all sorts of areas. It is not enough, as happened in my day, to say "YOU CANNOT HAVE SEX!. Teens are smarter (or not) than that and most would require some sort of reasoning explaining the hazards of transmitted disease, pregnancy (and having a family while still a child), financial considerations and lifestyle impact. The trick is to address them without preaching and make them think about the issues instead of just filling them with religious dictates. We all know how that doesn't work. There may be some of that going on but I haven't seen it and it could be a huge attraction for teens who don't get enough information from their churches or at home. It is tough to talk about those issues to teens face to face and especially in mixed company. The radio would give it some comfortable separation. A DJ with believability has an almost unique ability to reach that teen demo.

I am still interested in your opinions on the musical creativity of Christian radio. Since your first foray ended up in hip-hop, I suggest a different feed: http://zradio.org/listen/ The feed is the lower right - 103.7 The Rock. That should get you away from the hip-hop.

I will give it another try.

My dilemma is that I am too close to the situation. I am faced with a completely new set of artists and songs absolutely different from the secular classic rock, modern rock, alternative rock, active rock formats. And you and I both know - even though they aren't Christian, they are really good. Extremely talented people doing great things musically. If Christian rock is to compete, it must be equally good. My impression is that it may not - and that is with a motivation to give it every chance. But is my perception more one of familiarity with secular rock, and I could never be fair and impartial to something new, or is there still a gap in the talent level. I am not saying that Christian rock isn't good - it is - but nobody is going to get rich off of it. So the really talented people, even if they are Christians, are going to want to make a living and be really tempted to go the secular route. Its a big question, and you are in a position to help with the answer. The solution, unfortunately, will be much harder.

Having been very critical of CCM talent so far I need to say that general statements are almost always misleading and, again, I am not an expert with the music - just going on what I hear while riding with the wifey. I am sure there are both secular and non-secular artists who can generate meaningful music with worthwhile messages. If I see CCM having one significant fault it is isolation. That is, button-holing certain songs (or song types) and artists as "religious" to the exclusion of others. I don't think CCM needs to hit their listeners over the head with their message and perhaps need to lighten up a bit to address those listeners who might be looking for a message without the pulpit pounding. Tossing in a quality secular song or two every now and then seems like it would please those "religious lite" listeners without diluting the core message all that much and if something like the old Paul Harvey "news" could be found that related a message that teens understood and found interesting might also be an attraction.

I guess what I am saying is that perhaps the message could be slightly altered to address life issues rather than "believing in Jesus" will solve all your problems. It is a whole lot more practical and much easier to defend.

 

[boombox4]

In the example under discussion we were discussing Jesus - according to church and popular doctrine a person with magical powers who performed 'miracles' in front of thousands and spoke very revolutionary ideas in a society as closed as Nazi Germany - yet there is almost a complete absence of detailed information about him throughout his life except for the 'miracles' he was said to perform. When he lived he lived at the cultural center of the Western World yet he was virtually ignored by hundreds of scholars of the day. How does this happen? Given the influence his acts should have had on the local populace he should have had more media attention than the Kardashians, yet....virtually nothing. Nothing to back up any of the Biblical stories.

Jesus did not live in the "cultural center of the Western World", not by any stretch. Rome and Greece were the cultural centers of the Western World at that time, not Palestine (Rome, of course, borrowed much from Greece). Palestine was nothing more than a backwater, unimportant culturally until much later in history.

And those scholars of the day certainly glossed over a lot of stuff, like major wars.

For example, concerning the Roman conquest of Gaul and Britain we have only a handful of Roman sources to go on, the primary one being written by Caesar himself. Amazingly little is known about the peoples who lived in the areas conquered. Obviously, if those scholars would gloss over something as major as a war responsible for the conquest of an area covering a quarter of Europe (not to mention the deaths of thousands of people, and all the plunder), the fact that they would ignore a minor religious figure in a backwater outpost of the Roman Empire isn't surprising. Even if that figure did work miracles, people are usually skeptical of such things. According to New Testament accounts many who witnessed the miracles had trouble believing them.

RE: Christian Music Radio: I don't see Christian music radio as serving any other purpose aside from entertaining Christians.

Contemporary Christian music radio provides a safe, Christian music entertainment source. There are a lot of Christians who feel uncomfortable listening to secular music radio because it's "worldly". So Christian music radio provides a safe, Christian radio music source for them.

I haven't heard a lot of CCM since the late 1980's that I wanted to hear. There was a band called the Altar Boys that had some good tracks. In the mid-2000's there was a band called MeWithoutYou that had some good music, sort of a poetry slam with jangly guitars.

 

[Avid Listener]

I don't see Christian music radio as serving any other purpose aside from entertaining Christians.

You make that sound like it's a bad thing. Of course, you're also incorrect. It does more than merely entertain Christians, though not much more.

 

[landtuna]

Jesus did not live in the "cultural center of the Western World", not by any stretch. Rome and Greece were the cultural centers of the Western World at that time, not Palestine (Rome, of course, borrowed much from Greece). Palestine was nothing more than a backwater, unimportant culturally until much later in history.

What I meant, of course, was that he lived in a part of the Roman Empire although a distant part. But there were many scholars of the day in and around Rome who could have been expected to document someone so visible and opposed to the Roman dictatorship. Compared with other regions of the world at that time even a Roman backwater was an urban center (possible exception of Asia).

And those scholars of the day certainly glossed over a lot of stuff, like major wars.

I am not a history expert but from what I've read there was almost always a military adventure going on somewhere in the region and, as such, would be considered background noise unless threatening the empire itself. As most of these were executed by Romans or their stand-ins and located in nether regions of the empire I don't find it surprising that they weren't covered by "embedded" journalists of the day.

Even if that figure did work miracles, people are usually skeptical of such things. According to New Testament accounts many who witnessed the miracles had trouble believing them.

As they would be today but notice that ordinary people are still amazed by the Las Vegas showmen even though they know elephants can't play the piano. In the very superstitious era of that time I would think anyone who could pull off public "miracles" would be highly publicized as either a true magician or a fraud.

RE: Christian Music Radio: I don't see Christian music radio as serving any other purpose aside from entertaining Christians.

I agree with that and for the same reason Conservatives listen to Rush and Hannity - to hear messages in which they already believe and to be reassured their reasoning isn't faulty.

 

[vchimpanzee]

You make that sound like it's a bad thing. Of course, you're also incorrect. It does more than merely entertain Christians, though not much more.

Even if someone is not a Christian, the contemporary music stations have "family-friendly" lyrics.

On the subject of whether it would attract people who aren't believers, maybe they would find music they like and find out it had a message too.

BBN is one of the few places to hear "beautiful music" on FM radio. Or AM if you're in Charlotte, NC, though during the day Charlotte has standards too, with some "beautiful music".

 

[WPHA]

The only problem with this "stumbling block" argument is that people who don't like Christian rock music love to use it to try to banish all Christian rock - and anything else they don't like - off the air. The wield it with considerable power and a lot of arrogant impunity. When you get right down to it, you are letting them put you in bondage to their entire doctrinal baggage, and not just musically. This - is what happens when you let somebody quote scripture out of context!!!! It leads to an imbalance, and ultimately heresy. We stand in the liberty - because Christ has set us FREE - and we will NOT be entagled again in the yoke of bondage. I do NOT need Christians acting like Taliban imposing a Christian version of Sharia law. The existence of Christian rock music and Christian rock stations is no threat to them in any way, because they are responsible for their own walk and they are responsible for avoiding stumbling blocks.

Excuse me while I go eat some bacon in a restaurant that also has Islamic customers.

First, to Land Tuna, I must state for the record, that I will NOT engage in ANY debate about the existence of Jesus, or matters of Christian Faith. Period. Don't bother to "goad" me... I'm not biting. You have your beliefs, I have mine. So... with THAT out of the way, back to my ORIGINAL TOPIC!

Rbruce... I *USED TO* hold that narrow-minded opinion of Christian rock music. I no longer do. In the years I have been walking with the LORD, He has opened my eyes to the fact that HE IS GOD, and that HE is Sovereign. He WILL use anything He so chooses to use, to reach someone. To this, I say a sincere and hearty AMEN!

What I was referring to, are Christian artists (regardless of genre') that have become "stumbling blocks". The ones I'm thinking of have music which fits mostly the light A/C format... and even the format you dread, Praise & Worship.

Having a station playing Christian rock music is not a stumbling block, provided careful (and prayerful) discernment is exercised regarding the artists and their messages. THE SAME IS TRUE for ALL formats... Praise & Worship, A/C, Southern Gospel, etc!

God bless.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Sorry I was gone for a while, Landtuna. I was being bullied on a different section of this board - I was called a derogatory term intended to marginalize me. I guess the moderators missed the online bullying, I needed some time away. I am very glad you shared your background with us, it gives us a real understanding of where you are coming from and where you are today. I can truthfully say that I empathize, because the worst treatment I have ever received at the hands of another human being has been at the hands of Christians. You mindlessly agree with them, you get along fine. Disagree on something - like musical style - and you enter a verbal inquisition and shunning the likes of which hasn't been seen outside the Amish community.

I did give this post some thought, and I think I answered my own question. There are two aspects of an alternative music system. I use the term "alternative" fully understanding the comparison. Alternative rock a generation ago has some similarities with Christian rock today. A totally different set of songs by a totally different set of artists. And therein is the rub. A generation ago, Christian rock and Alternative rock were both in their infancy, and could well have "grown up" together. I don't think it was an accident that the local alternative station listened to our playlist and inquired about Jars of Clay - which WCIE discovered and we picked up shortly after. 9 months before anybody else heard of them. 99X Atlanta was next to pick them up, and they went national after that. Alternative rock WAS OPEN at the time to Christian rock artists, we were all "rebels" in a sense against the established record labels. The difference is that Nashville (the Christian side) gutted and squashed and suppressed Christian rock for the "safer" praise and worship genre. As a result, a whole generation of very creative, very good, very talented Christian rock artists were shut out. There was no internet, at least not the wideband music download internet we know now, and the music went unheard, unsold - nobody gets rich or expects to get rich doing Christian radio, but you have to make some sort of revenue to cover expenses, if nothing else.

When you lose a whole generation of music creators in a genre, it takes a long time to recover. I did a "channel switch" test of Christian rock vs. the local active rock station, which also has an indie rock HD-2. Apples and apples. I was realtively unfamiliar with the artists and songs on all three. Guitar work, drums, vocals - The Christian rock artists held up very well with the secular artists on the other channel. Things change dramatically when I tune over to classic rock. I am familiar with those artists and songs. They happened to play some of the very best (voted by fans, not me). Stairway to Heaven, Layla, Free Bird, etc. Are Christian artists as good? No way! But is that my prejudice after 40 years of hearing the songs and knowing they are consistently voted best of the best by listeners. How long would it take for Christian rock to make inroads? Listen to "Jesus Freak" by DC Talk, "Flood" by Jars of Clay, "Not Ashamed" by Newsboys - and all of the sudden you are getting really close. But those are from that previous era before the praise and worship onslaught. We need some more Christian rock songs like those - or your observations are all too correct. The new stuff just isn't as good. I'm not slamming anybody who is out there trying - they are all just one inspiration and song away from a new classic. But these things take time, and hostile actions by the praise and worship zombies have done the damage.